tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-68521704369204679152024-03-18T23:00:39.218-04:00Under Much GraceCynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comBlogger1059125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-2857531531701336732023-11-06T06:04:00.061-05:002023-11-06T22:23:36.555-05:00A Critical Review of Quiverfull Families, a book by Emily Hunter McGowin<p><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Quivering-Families-Quiverfull-Movement-Evangelical/dp/150642760X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=680I2VA95MNZ&keywords=Quivering+families&qid=1699264470&sprefix=quivering+families,aps,102&sr=8-1"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: small;"><i></i></span></span></a></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><i><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Quivering-Families-Quiverfull-Movement-Evangelical/dp/150642760X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=680I2VA95MNZ&keywords=Quivering+families&qid=1699264470&sprefix=quivering+families,aps,102&sr=8-1"></a></i></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><i><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Quivering-Families-Quiverfull-Movement-Evangelical/dp/150642760X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=680I2VA95MNZ&keywords=Quivering+families&qid=1699264470&sprefix=quivering+families,aps,102&sr=8-1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;" target="_blank"><img border="0" data-original-height="848" data-original-width="562" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhHstt_CWOyxxuETqzfMd2zd1QVBoTrAcsvi1tYnuIuUVhQJGceAKqLrDbwZvWQQZgc9AY-cHMX1jDu9CSmV-y2CaQstAUJNdqf3s3VgZOlH_cEoWh_4ovsTJoTtEAdIh09e1vVinPAVV0M7cSmgN5YLJd3nkp1m0e-X536MQdgLkhQGlCYzDBMmEWRUXl7/s320/QFF%20McGowin.jpg" width="212" /></a></i></span></div><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><i><span style="color: #2b00fe;">Quiverfull Families: The Quiverfull Movement and Evangelical Theology of the Family</span><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Quivering-Families-Quiverfull-Movement-Evangelical/dp/150642760X/ref=sr_1_1?crid=680I2VA95MNZ&keywords=Quivering+families&qid=1699264470&sprefix=quivering+families,aps,102&sr=8-1"> </a></i>offers a favorably biased assessment of the Evangelical Protestant Quiverfull Movement, including interviews with a minister apolo</span><span face="Arial, sans-serif">gist and two-year longitudinal interviews with three mothers who discuss their lifestyle. The now-Anglican author, a former Evangelical and graduate of Baylor's Truett Seminary, offers us her doctoral dissertation developed during her study at a Catholic university. I found the book's title misleading, as it suggests a much broader focus on families instead of its tapered focus primarily limited to the self-reported data of three subjects: mothers who exemplified the Quiverfull ideal during the study. The author's compassionate ethnographic glimpse into the lives of these courageous and transparently candid mothers shines as the most valuable element of the book.</span><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">In keeping with the adage of considering the source, I read the book from the perspective of a former Christian Reconstructionist who abandoned that position but remained an Evangelical. I spent a decade of my childbearing years as a wife in the Quiverfull Movement (QF), including four years as a church member who followed Bill Gothard's teachings. Eventually, I became a vocal critic from both Christian Counter-Cult and Thought Reform perspectives, and my presuppositional views about the nature of QF theology differ significantly from the author's own. While I was overwhelmed with the aftermath of QF in my own life and the lives of my loved ones who suffered so much, please note that the author's introduction to and experience with the sect differed profoundly from mine.</span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">For the reader who seeks only to understand the mindset of QF mothers in good standing, the book offers a glimpse into the concerns and beliefs of those mothers. However, the former follower who experienced emotional/psychological abuse, domestic violence, a broken marriage, estrangement from family, ostracizing within their QF community, shunning for leaving QF, expulsion, educational neglect as a child, gender abuse, spiritual abuse, or pronouncement of their eternal damnation will find the book's assessment of QF difficult. For example, I found the descriptions of “Titus 2 encouragement” problematic. Perhaps the author's limited pool of model-citizen subjects lacked the painful experience of stress created by the milieu management practice, though QF trains followers to speak of it in glowing terms only as one of its sacred systems. Underachieving members, outliers within QF, and former members know well the policing and chatter of women peers concerning their compliance and punishment by elder enforcers who demand <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2009/01/all-about-authority-popularity-of.html">submission</a>. (QF adapted the well-practiced, <a href="https://www.makesureministries.com/high-demand-authoritarian-religious-group/">high demand</a> mentoring system from prior waves of <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2009/01/shepherding-many-variations-on-theme.html">Shepherding/Discipleship</a> in spiritually abusive Evangelicalism.)</span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><br /></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>Limitations of Ethnography or the Nature of the Subject?</b></span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">My criticisms of the book may concern the limitations of ethnography for this particular religious group, given its convoluted <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_curriculum">hidden curriculum</a> and broad demographic across different denominations. I was disappointed that the author did not include the battery of questions prepared for subjects in her dissertation which prevents the reader from understanding more about the research and the veracity of its focus. While much material in the book discusses the benefits of ethnography in a theoretical sense which seemed worthy of a separate book, I found it necessary to consult many other sources to ensure that I was fairly evaluating the work rather than the research modality. As someone experienced in academic research, I found these elements to pose an unfair burden to the general reader. </span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">McGowin defines QF families as those who practice the intersection of three ideals: homeschooling, gender hierarchy, and pronatalism. These converging interests are not the distinctions that define the ideology as expressly QF. Evangelicals have historically and ubiquitously embraced the values of <a href="https://www.religion-online.org/book-chapter/chapter-2-the-family-pew-and-the-church-today/">family</a>, pronatalism (also a necessity for <a href="https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/resource-library-agricultural-communities/">pioneering agrarian culture</a>), the <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Uniting-Church-Blueprint-Rebuilding-Community/dp/0966731107/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3SQNRPMB50LQX&keywords=uniting+church+and+home&qid=1677059995&sprefix=uniting+church+and+home,aps,138&sr=8-1">home education of children</a>, the <a href="https://www.thoughtco.com/cult-of-domesticity-4694493">domesticity movement</a>, along with those denominations that long pursued <a href="https://studentsforliberty.org/blog/anne-hutchinson-and-the-spirit-of-religious-liberty/?gclid=CjwKCAiAl9efBhAkEiwA4TorilEJrnjD3VVv8zPyo4fBBkyOgtwAJeT2yJ1i9i7-2TAi4SoN2eGA6xoCpXcQAvD_BwE">patriarchy</a>. <a href="https://religiondispatches.org/how-a-fringe-theocratic-movement-helped-shape-the-religious-right-as-we-know-it/">Christian Reconstruction</a> became the catalyst that caused the much <a href="https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22526252#">smaller</a> subculture of QF to coalesce. I assert that the control mechanisms of manipulation and systems of control set QF followers apart from other Evangelicals as illustrated by <a href="https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/about/">personal testimony</a> and decades of conflict which the book does not mention (e.g., <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2012/04/turning-matthew-18-into-litigious.html">ecclesial courts</a>, <a href="https://narratively.com/the-brutal-ex-communication-of-a-christian-homeschooling-pioneer/">lawsuits</a>, <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20140702080430/https://a2zhomeschooling.com/thoughts_opinions_home_school/ravage_home_education_p2/">exclusivism</a>, Etc.).</span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">The author notes her aversion to criticism of the QF belief system and thus rejects consideration of many critical assessments of QF in her disseration, qualifying different varieties of critics by assigning all to a single strawman category of misinformed people who denigrate QF adherents. (To the contrary, research from these neglected sources shows that <a href="https://www.apologeticsindex.org/265-who-joins-cults-and-why">people join</a> high demand <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB-dJaCXAxA">ideological sects</a> like QF <a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=ICSA+%22who+joins+a+cult%22&client=safari&sxsrf=AJOqlzXpV38jV3gsm56Lahv8_6nAafGH9Q:1676964087939&source=hp&ei=93D0Y6XAN9mzkvQP2ciroAc&iflsig=AK50M_UAAAAAY_R_By5qR4maOGNMmmyRNAjAUUXtJJpb&ved=0ahUKEwjll4uGiqb9AhXZmYQIHVnkCnQQ4dUDCBI&uact=5&oq=ICSA+%22who+joins+a+cult%22&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBQghEKABMgUIIRCgATIFCCEQqwI6BAgjECc6BQgAEJECOgsIABCABBCxAxCDAToRCC4QgAQQsQMQgwEQxwEQ0QM6DgguEIAEELEDEMcBENEDOgQIABBDOgoILhDHARDRAxBDOgoIABCxAxCDARBDOgoILhDHARCvARBDOgUIABCABDoHCAAQgAQQCjoGCAAQFhAeOgkIABAWEB4Q8QQ6CAgAEBYQHhAKOgsIABAWEB4Q8QQQCjoFCAAQhgM6BQgAEKIEUABYiipg7C1oAHAAeACAAZMBiAG0D5IBBDIyLjGYAQCgAQE&sclient=gws-wiz#ip=1">not because</a> they are deficient in some way <a href="https://www.icsahome.com/icsa-publications/cultrecoverybook">but because</a> they are ethical, responsible, discerning and <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20200223043307/https://www.sustainableevolution.com/blog-1/2015/12/4/why-brilliant-people-join-cults">intelligent</a>.)</span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Matter-Basic-Principles-Gothard-Teachings-ebook/dp/B0CGWKMT27/ref=sr_1_1?crid=KHXJHSM0PPWP&keywords=a+matter+of+basic+principles+cultish+teachings&qid=1699325400&sprefix=a+matter+of+basic%2Caps%2C106&sr=8-1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;" target="_blank"><img border="0" data-original-height="722" data-original-width="520" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhUrh6WKvrrGz-z3DW1YtamwIYx9p8gEAaoQNHEL_SZ4qNVyCGTJ2S-XOiOel52eKz3ekuZKEUbSnCEdGhTTFbTOdCEzzVezVWlntb3zJty22GSKwVzkmTgnLw7d-D93pNX32EFbZQxCMAQtMZ_sjfT5dyX3DAaNRgHjXX5wK6rJNNUYdeCfl2hTNds94S2/s320/Matter%20of%20Basic%20Principles.jpg" width="230" /></a></div><span face="Arial, sans-serif">While the ethnographic method may have prevented extensive exploration of critical sources, I'm disappointed that the author deems the disciplines that <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBA69arPV4A">study</a> high demand, <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Wounded-Faith-Understanding-Healing-Spiritual/product-reviews/0931337119/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_show_all_btm?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews">spiritually abusive</a>, or <a href="http://www.reveal.org/library/thirdparty/wellspring_otherside.html">aberrant Christian organizations</a> illegitimate, excluding their mention. The study ignores this literature from <a href="https://www.apologeticsindex.org/c142.html">Christian counter-cult apologetics</a> (a Protestant Christian discipline that evaluates theological orthodoxy/praxy of Bible-based religion), <a href="http://www.dreichel.com/Checklist_of_Cult_Characte.htm">cult education organizations</a>, and decades of peer-reviewed research by men like <a href="https://www.icsahome.com/articles/dr--paul-martin-a-good-leader-and-a-wonderful-counselor-doc">Paul Martin</a> and <a href="https://bookreviews.icsahome.com/book-reviews/quivering-daughters-hope-and-healing-for-the-daughters-of-patriarchy">Larry Pile</a> (both of whom were former members of <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_R._Martin">The Great Commission</a>, a Bible-based <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20160325014201/http://gcxweb.org/Default.aspx">sect that differed little</a> from and shared “<a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2008/12/who-is-geoffrey-botkin-vision-forum.html">visionaries</a>” with QF). References to <i><a href="https://www.blogger.com/blog/post/edit/6852170436920467915/285753153170133673#" target="_blank">A Matter of Basic Principles</a></i></span><span face="Arial, sans-serif">, the watershed Biblical critique of Gothard's program by Don Veinot and Ron Henzel (now in its second edition), and <a href="https://midwestoutreach.org/an-open-letter-leadership-iblp/">decades</a> of their <a href="https://midwestoutreach.org/a-greeting-from-the-president/">Midwest Christian Outreach</a> critiques of <a href="https://midwestoutreach.org/?s=gothard">Gothard</a> and <a href="https://midwestoutreach.org/?s=Vision+Forum">Vision Forum</a> are also notably absent from the book. (If the ethnographic theological study design precluded citation of this material, a qualifying statement could have clarified that for the reader.)</span><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><br /></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>Critical Engagement</b></span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">I share far more common ideas about QF with the author than disparagements which she elucidates in her personal summary. She uses the term "family <a href="https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/church-world-and-the-christian-life/blueprint-ecclesiologies/CBF97661B5CD5554A5A9FA84BCB8BF1B">blueprint</a>" to describe QF's formulaic cookie-cutter preference for uniformity. I also found the <i>Eclipse of the Church</i> section </span><span face="Arial, sans-serif">very astute and well-reasoned. The section noting the pitfalls of"privatization" of the family leading to isolation points out how families' most vulnerable members may become predisposed to domestic violence. I'm grateful for the inclusion of these insights, as they provide balance which does speak to the subject of families.</span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">The author concludes by stating,<i><span style="color: #2b00fe;"> “Despite their lofty goals, however, the Quiverfull movement produces an idealization of the family that leads to social isolation, the eclipse of the church, and in some caes, the cover-up of sin.”</span></i> While I agree, this statement is a weak assessment, failing to do proper justice to those who have suffered devastating harm while practicing the lifestyle. While</span><span face="Arial, sans-serif"> "<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Map%E2%80%93territory_relation">the map is not the territory</a>”</span><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: small;"><i> </i></span></span><span face="Arial, sans-serif">in any such survey, I believe the reader merited a more thorough,</span><span face="Arial, sans-serif"> well-defined map concerning decades of practice and belief that go unmarked in the book and one from a broader theological Evangelical perspective.</span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">I cannot get past the author's statement near the end of the work which declares that QF's <span style="color: #2b00fe;"><i>“religious practice exposes important weaknesses in evangelical theology. [ . . .] My subject position leads me to contexualize Quiverfull within evangelicalism and offer observations on its continuity and discontinuity with what I understand to be American evangelical norms.” </i></span></span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">Though from a different set of Evangelical roots within a smaller subset of Evangelicalism than the author, I arrive at a different conclusion. While perhaps intentionally vague because of the limitations of ethnography, I cannot determine if the author views QF as a fair exemplar or perhaps a microcosm of all Evangelicalism. I don't know whether she's aware that informed Evangelical Counter Cult apologists reject QF as a pagan belief system, even if she personally rejects them as unhelpful. Such a strong statement deserves a robustly defended thesis from a theological perspective, but the author offers what I found to be more personal generalizations about the culture to vet the statement. I wish the author had been more specific about her meaning and the rationales, though perhaps the generalizations were meant to be charitable.</span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">May the varieties of our religious experiences concerning the Quiverfull Movement continue in ongoing discussion and through expanding research. As our One God and One Mediator saves us and brings us together into the knowledge of the truth as fellow Christians, may we all find the hope and healing we need. May we also endeavor to find that greater understanding and compassion for one another with God's help (<a href="https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+2:1-7&version=NASB">1 Tim 2:1-7</a>).</span></p>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-66643169125778912912023-10-30T23:52:00.005-04:002023-10-31T00:03:25.871-04:00On "Ghosts" and Other Undue Influences<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEia5Z5gXjISQxaM4WiSuPBvrqj1oicIOGtVs9u_DF0iH94EgQ4TYolSKDiM_HfhO09Y4f7Vth5VIbSTgayxUt1bhi3b4-Qvvhqp5DFaopMCXeL8LyAwDPwduSu_VH2LCYsfj0vZkMx6eqklwH90RVyUwgNC7stfgfnQ6sGBK7nJ9zy4xq7F-3NEo827itdL/s1326/Ibsen%20Play.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1326" data-original-width="882" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEia5Z5gXjISQxaM4WiSuPBvrqj1oicIOGtVs9u_DF0iH94EgQ4TYolSKDiM_HfhO09Y4f7Vth5VIbSTgayxUt1bhi3b4-Qvvhqp5DFaopMCXeL8LyAwDPwduSu_VH2LCYsfj0vZkMx6eqklwH90RVyUwgNC7stfgfnQ6sGBK7nJ9zy4xq7F-3NEo827itdL/s320/Ibsen%20Play.jpg" width="213" /></a></span></div><span face="Arial, sans-serif">Some Evangelical Christians talk more than others about evil influences in the spiritual realm, and different denominations believe different things about evil spirits. Some believe that people and even Christians can actually be “possessed,” while others think that demons can only create oppression and opposition that impede an individual Christian's efforts. There are many different ideas about how to resist and overcome all of that.<br /><br />My husband who grew up in a liturgical church would add some balance to some of these ideas by saying that the spirit of man and human nature usually give us plenty of cause and a means of explaining most problems. We often don't need any supernatural creatures to serve as our scapegoats.<br /><br />Job <a href="https://biblehub.com/job/5-7.htm">said</a> that man was made for trouble.</span><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><br /></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">As my clock approaches midnight on October 30</span><sup><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: small;">th</span></span></sup><span face="Arial, sans-serif">, I found myself thinking about the many kinds of would-be ghosts we face in life. I like the following description that <a href="https://www.britannica.com/biography/Henrik-Ibsen" target="_blank">Henrik Ibsen</a> offers in his 1881 play better than most ideas. </span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">A quote from <i><b>"<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghosts_(play)" target="_blank">Ghosts</a>":</b></i></span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in; margin-left: 0.49in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><br /></span><span style="color: #0000cc;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">“I am half inclined to think we are all ghosts…it is not only what we have inherited from our fathers and mothers that exists again in us, but all sorts of old dead ideas and all kinds of old dead beliefs and things of that kind. <br /><br />They are not actually alive in us; but there they are dormant all the same, and we can never be rid of them. Whenever I take up a newspaper and read it, I fancy I see ghosts creeping between the lines. There must be ghosts all over the world. They must be as countless as the grains of the sands, it seems to me. And we are so miserably afraid of the light, all of us.”</span></span><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><br /><br /></span></p><p align="CENTER" style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>May we find all the courage, strength, support, and hope </b></span></p><p align="CENTER" style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>that we all need to help us step into the light.</b></span></p><p align="CENTER" style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><br /></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><br /></p>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-32920243830585768332023-10-28T16:29:00.004-04:002023-10-28T16:29:28.415-04:00Always Growing<p> The more things change, the more they seem to stay the same. 😊 A good life of growth always requires commitment, courage, discernment, honesty, and hard work.</p><p style="text-align: center;">From<a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2016/01/selfregulationwhathow.html" target="_blank"> a post</a> originally published in January of 2016:</p><p></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhy4RyTgWWvkSauTtoVxnWCAgegEGPk_UtrRcoN5RjImqMo2VfzVAAmcPUjYjnn4HXj01OAlgkY0d6Alz1wV4vLxLTteJMt96wcip-B-1QRV8twul2tzC0h3YHweVLOFKKUAyc5_tmUBqns55ejZ3ASCTXFHH_3Dt5cWX4zl4H5BFnmVDhG058BVLmZ4Uc-/s1600/ESR%20Paradox.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1600" data-original-width="935" height="1045" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhy4RyTgWWvkSauTtoVxnWCAgegEGPk_UtrRcoN5RjImqMo2VfzVAAmcPUjYjnn4HXj01OAlgkY0d6Alz1wV4vLxLTteJMt96wcip-B-1QRV8twul2tzC0h3YHweVLOFKKUAyc5_tmUBqns55ejZ3ASCTXFHH_3Dt5cWX4zl4H5BFnmVDhG058BVLmZ4Uc-/w611-h1045/ESR%20Paradox.jpg" width="611" /></a></div><p></p>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-6505943733669686412023-07-04T02:48:00.000-04:002023-07-04T02:48:01.848-04:00A Pause for Respite and Recollection<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhi55S1kiHIUK85AeRPPDgnU-PFWbM5_xNPsADRjDmYDFSw-WSwrMJJ3Us15leA_a9Ily185f791y4z5_DKo0IYYa4xCs5jNErJ5gNx5Ih79bKg-B35rNJqtijMM-DQLk3nR9NN3ojlUF-qahdCT5165LvedlBrbCOB1s0nXQx2rdd6fKi6E0rouKXu0oo0/s1440/blog%20boat.png" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1440" data-original-width="1076" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhi55S1kiHIUK85AeRPPDgnU-PFWbM5_xNPsADRjDmYDFSw-WSwrMJJ3Us15leA_a9Ily185f791y4z5_DKo0IYYa4xCs5jNErJ5gNx5Ih79bKg-B35rNJqtijMM-DQLk3nR9NN3ojlUF-qahdCT5165LvedlBrbCOB1s0nXQx2rdd6fKi6E0rouKXu0oo0/s320/blog%20boat.png" width="239" /></a></span></div><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">I fully intended to delve right <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/06/following-bruce-wares-primrose-path-to_18.html" target="_blank">back into</a> writing about Bruce Ware's <a href="https://goodfaithmedia.org/southern-baptist-scholar-links-spouse-abuse-to-wives-refusal-to-submit-to-their-husbands-cms-12832/" target="_blank">infamous 2008 sermon</a> at Denton Bible Church when I returned from a short break away from home with my husband. We left for it a few hours after I put the previous post online, so very focused on the many things yet to say about it all and why it's still important. Had it not been for the little getaway, I'd likely write every day.</span><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">But a remarkable thing happened.</span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><br /></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">We drove to the Lower Florida Keys where I found a most affordable place to stay on a docked houseboat. It was beautiful there and felt very private. It was so nice to have a kitchen, but the best thing was the outdoor deck that opened up onto the water. It also looked out over a patch of many mangroves – the water inches from where we sat. Inside in the coolness of air conditoning, we could still enjoy the view through the patio doors while seated snugly on the sofa.</span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">On the first night, my husband and I awakened in the still of the night (as we usually do and have done so for most of our 33 years together). We usually spend at least twenty minutes in the middle of most nights talking about obscure and fascinating things like the nerd-geeks that we are, and then we go back to sleep (on the good nights). We jokingly call it our <i>liguis obscurus</i>. Sitting out on the deck in the middle of the night, inches away from the still, watching the calm water filled us with awe, wonder, and gratitude to share such beauty. Though we didn't see any dolphins or manatees swim by, it was still amazing to think they might. <br /></span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Even with the lights from the marina and the many boats, I could still see the stars in the clear sky. Most of the world slept, and we sat and watched the stars in the sky circling over us. It always makes me think of the Genesis creation account, and I imagine that I can sense the Spirit of God hovering over the surface of the deep. Though it was still that night, the surface of the water still seemed to emanate the energy of life. I felt a new and different sense of being "kept" by God who neither slumbers nor sleeps. We were awake to witness it and drink it in.</span></p><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhnIeYiJHnfRTfjJXXWfd1tftx3A6UP9HYNCRlhStxx06hGoYJDyBgVbvS7vHo-I2ABV7zwVVkp7cTqyzMSrJkl_BqH5UpqDklYpElieaQcB5qENHG5kMSFyu5WH9GwQAHlDo3d03wVC6jcq-KeFF1EJVis2frrIm9tcWQ0LoM7B8vyeX9Sjqn4RPhCFAbo/s1346/blog%20jupiter.png" imageanchor="1" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="978" data-original-width="1346" height="466" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhnIeYiJHnfRTfjJXXWfd1tftx3A6UP9HYNCRlhStxx06hGoYJDyBgVbvS7vHo-I2ABV7zwVVkp7cTqyzMSrJkl_BqH5UpqDklYpElieaQcB5qENHG5kMSFyu5WH9GwQAHlDo3d03wVC6jcq-KeFF1EJVis2frrIm9tcWQ0LoM7B8vyeX9Sjqn4RPhCFAbo/w640-h466/blog%20jupiter.png" width="640" /></a></div><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">We then stayed two nights in a nice hotel in a different town on the southern side of the Keys, looking out on a little bay-like area facing the Straights of Florida. Though there was incidental light there, too, I awakened early on our last night there and watched Jupiter rise over the eastern sky. I could hear the hum of the air conditioner while out on the beautiful balcony while the world (and my husband) slept. I regretted not bringing a scope that might have allowed me to see Jupiter's moons because it was shining so brightly with an orange glint when it first made its debut.</span><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">I watched the lights on buildings on the other side of the inlet glisten and scintillate on the water like the stars did in the inky sky. I was held. I was kept. I felt peaceful, held above the water and under the heavens, safe in God's holy presence as I enjoyed a moment of awe watching Jupiter shine so brightly as she migrated up over the horizon and across the sky on the first day of summer.</span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">I wasn't ready to leave that place of holiness when I returned, and I haven't wanted to think about violence, deception, or cruelty. I needed time to remember that amidst it all and even in our trials, we are kept and held by God. My name is inscribed on His palm, my times are in His hands, and I am held by </span><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Him.</span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgNzTbz6miHT7ciflngwf_0Qw85UsOTidvcNpIFDmN_dXlryeGgxZmNRZg5vMt_CKeVS67hqdpeDYKNE7GpyVyXGTRa6dYDN57xJFoWRPgCnu09CAyAiFAPUYOPXw7LpAPZ2wOLykfu-yY4vij9lJAJZxxXLtWLeejjyq37UP4i25MX2ClcpawJ_6JM--UA/s1010/World%20is%20passing%20away.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1004" data-original-width="1010" height="318" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEgNzTbz6miHT7ciflngwf_0Qw85UsOTidvcNpIFDmN_dXlryeGgxZmNRZg5vMt_CKeVS67hqdpeDYKNE7GpyVyXGTRa6dYDN57xJFoWRPgCnu09CAyAiFAPUYOPXw7LpAPZ2wOLykfu-yY4vij9lJAJZxxXLtWLeejjyq37UP4i25MX2ClcpawJ_6JM--UA/s320/World%20is%20passing%20away.jpg" width="320" /></a></span></div><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">I've also thought lately that people like Bruce Ware and his message are passing away like all of us. I tend to fear with urgency to spare Christian women from the harm that some suffer in the gender war when I see little change. Tim Keller died only<a href="https://religionunplugged.com/news/2023/6/22/top-5-tributes-to-the-late-dr-timothy-keller" target="_blank"> a few weeks ago</a>. Time slips into the future -- us with it while our times rest in His hands. This present world is passing away, and a new time will come as we pass out of this life. There will be new sermons and new victories. There will be new still nights of awe and some with new terror. New arrows, different from these today, will fly by day. Yet we are kept and held and borne up as God.</span><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;"><br /></span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">I'm not yet done bathing in and exhaling after much-needed rest in peace and joy. I needed to remember so that tomorrow, I will not forget.</span></p>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-87612207709693886762023-06-18T09:33:00.001-04:002023-07-04T03:17:14.866-04:00Following Bruce Ware's Primrose Path to Domestic Abuse (Part III: CBMW and Bruce Ware are no different than Shiny Happy People)<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjj-Pr5O5t5cGKUo2w81XFPzfGuumIjwdMptgXtN0iXXMIQS7l5ggnzNxM1Fn-MI9fOnS120tmwNXQV-QZUK64nrnJgajDGf9SHHfsp2M4s5Wx6e3JOKgif2TJKrp6tdXh8GqsJ2umNzNvlcF_PUNmWPfGecDeoFMF9G_3fodyJyzYWEYkU-Ih-VgJMLg/s1616/So%20many%20Shiny%20happy%20people.png" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="666" data-original-width="1616" height="165" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjj-Pr5O5t5cGKUo2w81XFPzfGuumIjwdMptgXtN0iXXMIQS7l5ggnzNxM1Fn-MI9fOnS120tmwNXQV-QZUK64nrnJgajDGf9SHHfsp2M4s5Wx6e3JOKgif2TJKrp6tdXh8GqsJ2umNzNvlcF_PUNmWPfGecDeoFMF9G_3fodyJyzYWEYkU-Ih-VgJMLg/w400-h165/So%20many%20Shiny%20happy%20people.png" width="400"></a></div><span face="Arial, sans-serif">We've considered when </span><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><i>Gender Role Evangelist</i></span><span face="Arial, sans-serif"> Bruce Ware <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/06/following-bruce-wares-primrose-path-to.html">relied on cruelty</a> to win ideological debates. </span><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">All's fair in Christian love and culture war these days, right? </span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">Some of that I understand in light of the dominating milieu that CBMW created to help them win their war. We've also considered some <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/06/following-bruce-wares-primrose-path-to_17.html">possible negative progressions and consequences</a> that stem from his <a href="https://theologyforwomen.org/2016/08/dr-bruce-ware-defines-complementarian-position.html">definition of women</a> as the indirect image of God. <span></span></span></p><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/06/following-bruce-wares-primrose-path-to_18.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-82140379748804726372023-06-17T16:41:00.007-04:002023-07-04T03:16:56.563-04:00Following Bruce Ware's Primrose Path to Domestic Abuse (Part II: Turing Violence Against Women into God's Gender Justice )<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><span style="text-align: left;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjB9QK_C0meRsR7IAA2P7Lh4ZWgSxFwXfnzbilma4LrGGqKXachgml74hlCqvb8U0J34LkICDZR8_qrSYH3M-eQM2hn-Ke5TYCua6xVD3L8Td1AkNtXARALJsGnNqiYwWxbu5WLwt2dARbwVzKeQKAvHp4SPBo6_6WWRJhBoZnduh-_1EsRvxh8V2q1dw/s1048/Pet%20the%20dog.png" style="clear: right; float: right; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1048" data-original-width="888" height="400" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjB9QK_C0meRsR7IAA2P7Lh4ZWgSxFwXfnzbilma4LrGGqKXachgml74hlCqvb8U0J34LkICDZR8_qrSYH3M-eQM2hn-Ke5TYCua6xVD3L8Td1AkNtXARALJsGnNqiYwWxbu5WLwt2dARbwVzKeQKAvHp4SPBo6_6WWRJhBoZnduh-_1EsRvxh8V2q1dw/w339-h400/Pet%20the%20dog.png" width="339"></a></div><b><i>Read <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/06/following-bruce-wares-primrose-path-to.html" target="_blank">Part I HERE</a>.</i></b></span></span></div><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">Wife beating became the last straw issue that drove me out of the #<a href="https://www.amazon.com/Under-Authority/dp/B0B8TSG92M/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3VEF8KDRRABOV&keywords=shiny+happy+people+duggar+family+secrets&qid=1687030480&sprefix=shiny%2Caps%2C213&sr=8-1" target="_blank">ShinyHappyPeople </a>Church (#SHPC) I'd</span><span face="Arial, sans-serif"> </span><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/06/concerning-shiny-happy-people-two-weeks.html" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">once attended</a><span face="Arial, sans-serif">. I had no idea who <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2011/11/gothic-gothard-index-of-all-things.html" target="_blank">Gothard</a> was when we joined, but I knew when we left.</span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">Over time, I would learn that the ideology demanded that:</span></p><ul><li><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">Wives obediently submit with a quiet and gentle spirit to any maltreatment their husbands dished out</span></p><ul><li><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">The same went for sex, too. Whatever, whenever he wanted.</span></p></li></ul></li><li><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">All marital discord be assigned to the wife as the root cause.</span></p></li><li><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">tWife beating always be considered a breach of duty or neglect on the part of the wife</span></p></li><li><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">Wives "just let love cover her husband's sin against her" so that her properly yielded submission could magically convict/cure/rehabilitate her husband. (That's the wonder-working power of submission if you get it right. If you didn't get results, you weren't doing it right.)</span></p></li><li><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">Husbands were never held accountable because if a wife does her job right (sex and submission and supper), the Bible (per Bill Gothard) guarantees the system to work.<span></span></span></p></li></ul><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/06/following-bruce-wares-primrose-path-to_17.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-30191543991279194992023-06-17T11:08:00.005-04:002023-06-17T16:53:34.779-04:00Following Bruce Ware's Primrose Path to Domestic Abuse (Part I: Ideas that fed those Shiny Happy People)<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjUhRaxkQB-Sp1_esl0-7bbx5jxmf-NONahkJHcoumAUauYf-rrtHuK5W8r5TT0fWOGyXGKeaAi1LOisauoafhbzQG7pWsUWx7pJ-04k46N2tRoNFndq7Vzo0-cZpEu-MzIZryOjTu0REseFJb3Ye3UVeIcmDBte9fWE7XMXFBPZ8gLHZo03X7EG6EUQQ/s1572/Peter%20Smith%20Queries.png" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="778" data-original-width="1572" height="198" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjUhRaxkQB-Sp1_esl0-7bbx5jxmf-NONahkJHcoumAUauYf-rrtHuK5W8r5TT0fWOGyXGKeaAi1LOisauoafhbzQG7pWsUWx7pJ-04k46N2tRoNFndq7Vzo0-cZpEu-MzIZryOjTu0REseFJb3Ye3UVeIcmDBte9fWE7XMXFBPZ8gLHZo03X7EG6EUQQ/w400-h198/Peter%20Smith%20Queries.png" width="400"></a></span></div><span face="Arial, sans-serif">When the reporter, Peter Smith, contacted me to ask questions about my relationships with Bruce Ware and Russell Moore and my thoughts <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20071230221345/http://www.sbts.edu/academics/Faculty/Theology.aspx">about them</a>, I told him that I had no reason to believe that either of them had any clue about who I was. (Earlier that year, I'd earned the badge of honor through a <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/04/mess-with-bull-and-youll-get-horns.html">dishonest public denouncement</a> for criticizing their teachings in a <a href="http://undermoregrace.blogspot.com/search/label/Patriarchy%20Workshop">lecture</a> earlier in 2008.) </span><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">He assured me that both men </span><span style="color: #000099;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><i>"knew exactly who I was,"</i></span></span><span face="Arial, sans-serif"> sharing deeply personal insults about me that were too derogatory for him to repeat. He was sure that one of them knew me in real life because of the nature of his comments. I assured him I'd only ever reviewed their teachings and had never met either man.<span></span></span></p><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/06/following-bruce-wares-primrose-path-to.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-57102469210445356052023-06-15T10:26:00.008-04:002023-06-17T11:10:09.889-04:00Concerning Shiny Happy People, Two Weeks Later<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjodWh3VYQTCI8pPe0PBJvRzgbjMbaHIsuFfpZZE5GX0yQpWEbgCAg-lz2Kje1aCDaVDtYzm75PrSvqR2-UDwacu_ovm0tD0gSb6-Ztj8VK_GisY95wrC9al7kAzjmTPFdyntoEQDJgI-AFJQhF32mtYTkOGt4eqOFFd2vEfdjQYpas7nwFTSIpsQFCPg/s1678/Jill%20Dillard%20quote.png" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="908" data-original-width="1678" height="346" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjodWh3VYQTCI8pPe0PBJvRzgbjMbaHIsuFfpZZE5GX0yQpWEbgCAg-lz2Kje1aCDaVDtYzm75PrSvqR2-UDwacu_ovm0tD0gSb6-Ztj8VK_GisY95wrC9al7kAzjmTPFdyntoEQDJgI-AFJQhF32mtYTkOGt4eqOFFd2vEfdjQYpas7nwFTSIpsQFCPg/w640-h346/Jill%20Dillard%20quote.png" width="640"></a></span></div><span face="Arial, sans-serif">I started watching the <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Under-Authority/dp/B0B8TSG92M/ref=sr_1_1?crid=136LC33UQ2RFX&keywords=shiny+happy+people+duggar+family+secrets&qid=1686820396&sprefix=Shiny+Happy+People,aps,159&sr=8-1">Amazon docuseries about the Duggar Family</a> entitled </span><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><i>Shiny Happy People</i></span><span face="Arial, sans-serif"> two weeks ago today. </span><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">I could not get through the second episode in one sitting, wept, and had to come bad to it the next day. I then spent the better part of the next two days bursting into tears multiple times, and I could barely function because of it. <span></span></span></p><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/06/concerning-shiny-happy-people-two-weeks.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-69249981711742576162023-04-03T16:50:00.004-04:002023-04-04T06:21:51.615-04:00Mess with the Bull and You'll Get the Horns: The Dominating Behavioral Context of CBMW<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><b></b></span></p><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://twitter.com/bethallisonbarr/status/1638889794376962049" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;" target="_blank"><img border="0" data-original-height="572" data-original-width="1190" height="309" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg2K6zbvSEEZyjM4zU0aQuGVBFj5gZe2tY5VzQghZWP8Wy4V8uRB1IuS5PYWtFu8fatZ7AvEVtYigdfZHbGKH_-ZgcwGhSTSdnYFEtyuGoUFxaEZfUJEd4UG5IzaIoyxR7aDvoHAZ-gjwJ_EvSC7ZenZ2kcmuVqjT_zq-ACig1fkY00FcI18n0oj7uKoQ/w640-h309/Barr%20Tweet%20patriarchy%20power.png" width="640"></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">(Complementarianism) <a href="https://twitter.com/bethallisonbarr/status/1638889794376962049" target="_blank">Patriarchy is about Power</a></td></tr></tbody></table><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>On the 15<sup>th</sup> Anniversary of my Cancelling</b></span><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">Thirty years ago, I joined a <a href="http://redeemdinah.blogspot.com/p/quiverfull_6.html">Quiverfull Movement</a></span><span style="color: blue;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"> </span></span><span face="Arial, sans-serif">church without even knowing that there was such a thing because it seemed like a regular Evangelical church. Young Evangelical women today face even more pressure to conform to Quiverfull standards than I did, and I get frustrated that people think it’s all about babies. The lifestyle undoubtedly involves children, but it focuses on ways of controlling people and circumstances. I grieve today because I’d hoped to be a better agent of more potent, meaningful change. <span></span></span></p><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/04/mess-with-bull-and-youll-get-horns.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-23047707867839475602023-04-03T12:27:00.008-04:002023-04-04T06:27:56.522-04:00Complicated Forgiveness: Colliding with Organizations that Cancel You<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><b><span face="Arial, sans-serif"></span></b></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><b><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://goodfaithmedia.org/speaker-chastised-over-criticism-of-biblical-patriarchy-at-sbc-seminary-cms-12555/" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;" target="_blank"><img border="0" data-original-height="718" data-original-width="1774" height="163" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhNXH1bfGHQHt3rCP-8Qd6xcpzFmAzgbLDxD9uaGiEm-Q6BgyALC80IzI_MiYqX5ZFJl3Vekd0aUuR4ejilGxwqQCpHkq31gX_7GsMvxKwRNXdx85L8eceORkmPWa9djUed8j2STFqAB6Xynon-OzTl2CEl5iQRNbWKVw5uc5fKUKMQQXd2gEkjroIxfQ/w400-h163/Cancelled.png" width="400"></a></span></b></div><b><span face="Arial, sans-serif">On the Fifteenth Anniversary </span><span face="Arial, sans-serif">of my</span><span face="Arial, sans-serif"> </span><a href="https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/cancel-culture-words-were-watching" style="font-family: Arial, sans-serif;">Cancelling<br></a></b><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><b>A Companion Post to <i><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/04/mess-with-bull-and-youll-get-horns.html" target="_blank">Mess with the Bulls and You'll Get the Horns: The Dominating Behavioral Context of CBMW</a></i></b></span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">I remember my exit counselor talking to me after a month to consider that many of the leaders in cults like the one I'd left are trapped and bound in the system more deeply than I ever was. I bristled at the suggestion at the time, but in time, it would help me get past the trauma and see my former leaders with compassion. (Read more on this <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2013/01/understanding-repentance.html#more">much-misunderstood topic HERE</a>.)<span></span></span></p><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/04/complicated-forgiveness-colliding-with.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-9392178213858558472023-03-16T03:00:00.004-04:002023-03-16T03:46:39.541-04:00Might "Social Justice" Look Like This?<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
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I believe that God gave me the most precious and powerful gifts of kindness, life, liberty, and love. Because they were so freely given to me, I want to share that bounty and blessing with others. We are fallible creatures in an unfair world, and I want to comfort others with the same comfort that God showed to me through so many people, Christian and otherwise. There is plenty of God's great love to go around for all of us.<span></span><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2020/06/my-chief-cause-for-pursuit-of-social.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-81042503916344553892023-03-13T23:50:00.000-04:002023-03-16T03:26:13.047-04:00Another (Non-Theobro) Christian Scholar on Social Justice<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEha0r3f6COnwsKivE_NaHyOJYBj1P5zTquM2Z8P_mqzHworATdmpQM-jHX7dQ6vLtg6RzYmqDf1T6nqiF48LGpiBoKKtCSoLFgZ_XG7OgI2aO30n6TI3ZHiUEAUw_XLhDZ3_m0KYa6oe9VjJa9kJXFZCYxuA2Qn3qQFpaf0-pyo__LBDBqyoZ1rXU2kqQ/s726/eough%20is%20enough.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="726" data-original-width="504" height="207" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEha0r3f6COnwsKivE_NaHyOJYBj1P5zTquM2Z8P_mqzHworATdmpQM-jHX7dQ6vLtg6RzYmqDf1T6nqiF48LGpiBoKKtCSoLFgZ_XG7OgI2aO30n6TI3ZHiUEAUw_XLhDZ3_m0KYa6oe9VjJa9kJXFZCYxuA2Qn3qQFpaf0-pyo__LBDBqyoZ1rXU2kqQ/w144-h207/eough%20is%20enough.jpg" width="144"></a></span></div><span face="Arial, sans-serif">When I read the new <a href="https://baptistnews.com/article/just-what-we-needed-another-pompous-declaration-from-the-conservative-calvinist-evangelicals/" target="_blank">2022 Frankfurt Declaration</a> last week, I could not help but think back to this essay I read almost three years ago. As I noted in <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/03/the-equivocation-problem-with-social.html" target="_blank">an earlier post</a>, I am not a student of the areas of study that concern themselves with Critical Race Theory, so I am grateful that Kelly Hamren agreed to allow me to repost her commentary here. She was homeschooled and went on to eventually become a graduate student at Liberty University. After completing her studies, she served for eleven years in the English Department at Liberty, moving from Instructor to Assistant Professor. She later earned a PhD in Literature and Criticism from Indiana University of Pennsylvania.<span></span></span><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/03/another-christian-scholar-on-social.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-57651367234626672742023-03-12T06:22:00.001-04:002023-03-16T04:23:44.114-04:00The Piety of the Theobros and the Bully Pulpit of 2022 Frankfurt Declaration<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><p style="margin-bottom: 0in; text-align: start;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br></div><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><div style="text-align: left;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhPApzqxNSbI4vbk2Y16T7i0dzN64SBuHxG5zV8gbHtktP0yRbYK2fFC6MFfXS2eSCGkYhU_-JMQKyfIS3Hkz1ErPZ2eJLrS3NVm-mshH-kOEd3S2P8UIcA3tnb6f8Dd_ZzSifO8JFUh3A5DR2teqO021QmKS4FVlcT-ee9Pk9TcCo2ePJ4fi8Je2vWeA/s936/Melanchthon%20Quote.png" imageanchor="1" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="618" data-original-width="936" height="211" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhPApzqxNSbI4vbk2Y16T7i0dzN64SBuHxG5zV8gbHtktP0yRbYK2fFC6MFfXS2eSCGkYhU_-JMQKyfIS3Hkz1ErPZ2eJLrS3NVm-mshH-kOEd3S2P8UIcA3tnb6f8Dd_ZzSifO8JFUh3A5DR2teqO021QmKS4FVlcT-ee9Pk9TcCo2ePJ4fi8Je2vWeA/s320/Melanchthon%20Quote.png" width="320"></a></div>A few days ago, I took notice of a new term used to describe today's <a href="https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2020/october-web-only/jesus-john-wayne-kristin-kobes-du-mez-masculinity.html">Alpha Males</a> of Calvinism: <a href="https://baptistnews.com/article/meet-the-theobros-who-want-you-to-know-theyre-right-about-everything/">Theobros</a>. They're a special breed of <a href="hhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Calvinism">New Calvinist</a> who spends a lot of time on Twitter, telling women, men, and the rest of us lesser life forms that we aren't the right kind of Christian as if they are the New Gnostics. Sometimes, I feel betrayed because the late <a href="https://www.ligonier.org/learn/teachers/rc-sproul">RC Sproul, Sr's</a> work helped me profoundly on my thirty-three-year-long journey out of the cruel madness of Word of Faith. Little did I know that he was a rare example of loving grace and compassion amongst the larger group of New Calvinists (in both the media and in churches). <span></span></div></span></div><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/03/the-piety-of-theobros-and-bully-pulpit.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-8763725242374701412023-03-11T06:41:00.002-05:002023-03-16T03:24:59.409-04:00The Equivocation Problem with Social Justice that the Theobros Make Worse<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: left;"><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEix6ysNxgfA8zikx7aq9bMr0akspxDL4csY1ihG-c7iy8F7QjJUeDp_OVUIHjrmUkb3jqwwTrUKxUoHYQP0q6CGU9E50DS_V9hnu06z3D5JF3FYP5SBxANFRt4zp-865RQFPbjeO814dE9P0syTH5kAnIPb8obGNtQ_lPgnDbk-eP2I0KOzvjf06FguJw/s1190/social%20justice.jpg" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="420" data-original-width="1190" height="226" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEix6ysNxgfA8zikx7aq9bMr0akspxDL4csY1ihG-c7iy8F7QjJUeDp_OVUIHjrmUkb3jqwwTrUKxUoHYQP0q6CGU9E50DS_V9hnu06z3D5JF3FYP5SBxANFRt4zp-865RQFPbjeO814dE9P0syTH5kAnIPb8obGNtQ_lPgnDbk-eP2I0KOzvjf06FguJw/w640-h226/social%20justice.jpg" title="Featuring Michael Rosato's Harriet Tubman Mural" width="640"></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Featuring<a href="Most regular people understand the term "social justice" in terms of common vernacular in the US. The most basic understanding of the term is through the words themselves. In society, especially in America, our government aspires to grant each citizen rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We've spent our whole history working to make those liberties equally available to all her citizens. To most people, most Christians included, "social justice" means just that. It is the aspiration to see all people in society treated fairly and justly. Unless someone's taken particular classes in college or read specific literature, most people understand these simple words in only that context. The problem arises when we think we're talking about the everyday meaning instead of how a profession or some other field of study uses the same term. Meanings become ambiguous, and we fall into logic errors, misunderstanding one another. Equivocation in language poses a significant problem within the Quiverfull movement because it uses terminology in novel ways, contributing to distortions in doctrine, and leading to major issues in the practice of one's faith. The Frankfurt School and Critical Race Theory In the 1930s, a group of people in Frankfurt, Germany, who sought to solve the worst problems of humankind looked to socialism to solve them. They gleaned ideas from Marx, Freud, and Hegel to develop a socialist view of struggles between groups in society, seeking ways to solve them. They became known as Cultural Marxists and the Frankfurt School because of their work at Goethe University in Frankfurt. They viewed capitalism as the most significant facilitator of oppression and focused explicitly on groups of people instead of individuals. They consolidated their beliefs in their Critical Race Theory (CRT) which established the general term of Social Justice as “the elimination of all forms of oppression,” but without further elaboration on any more specific meaning, leaving much of it up to interpretation. CRT became a precursor to the discipline of Critical Legal Studies, which sought to solve the problems of inequity between the poor and the wealthy within the legal system. I am not a student of any degree and am largely unknowledgeable about these matters. Leaving the general definition of Social Justice unspecific renders its meaning unclear. How do people define "oppression," and "elimination"? Tools of justice oppress abuse and crime, and those tools should be appropriately utilized by society and not oppressed. Society should reform those tools if they add to oppression; otherwise, we have anarchy. That's where socialism steps in to offer solutions. I hate oppression, and I hate racism in particular, as is well noted in the archive of this blog from the outset. I despise black-and-white thinking (no pun intended) and how ideologies reduce people to objects they claim to help as they sacrifice those individuals for the sake of their cause. For that reason and with this understanding, I reject aspects of CRT as my personal view of change because it seems as oppressive as oppression. My religious and political beliefs contrast starkly with CRT's strictly defined, all-or-nothing definitions of 1.) binary oppressor/oppressed groups (because it rejects all possible intermediary groups), 2.) hegemony as the only means by which societies change (with no possible alternative mechanisms of change), and 3.) lived experience that determines that I have no personal experiences of my own as an individual that give me empathy in any capacity for an oppressed individual. I do not oppose the efforts of oppressed people to seek to change the systems that oppress them. Still, my view of how to understand the problem and how to change things differs vastly from that of CRT to which some iterations of Liberation Theology and the Black Lives Matter movement appeal. I believe that a Christian perspective offers the best means to change things, but the Evangelical Church at large has too oft' been a part of perpetuating the problem, especially in the South. In their rejection of CRT, some Christians make the very same all-or-nothing errors of logic that I see in CRT itself. Rather than pursuing a dialogue and collaborating effectively and honestly with people outside their camp, many Christians, reject those who understand the dilemma differently. Bullying, Branding, and Bogeymen Those Christians claim to have the perfect truth about many matters and draw their own all-or-nothing categories that blackmail brand others into accepting their views on the matter. This Quiverfull camp and other general ideologues for patriarchy followed already-established ways of bullying that show us hegemony in action, a term that I used to describe aberrant Christianity in the first essay I wrote on the subject and tactics used in the gender debate. Andrew Sandlin also used the term to describe aspects of the Quiverfull/Patriarchy movement. Before the new revival started by men like Tom Ascol and Voddie Baucham, paleoconservatives like Pat Buchanan and William Lind claimed that society and the Christian Church in the US unknowingly took their marching orders on how to live from the Cultural Marxists specifically. Geoff Botkin claims falsely that he was raised in a home by parents who were alleged acolytes of the Frankfurt School. They chose Cultural Marxism as a primary bogeyman on which they pin everything about culture they do not like, identifying it as THE primary source of secularism in the US. These men and their “Theobro” cohorts give the Frankfurt School too much credit for secularization in the US instead of viewing it as part of the worldwide paradigm shift away from Romanticism into Modernism and Existentialism. (That I do know much about.) Some claim that as we approached the advent of the Twentieth Century, beleaguered parents couldn't be bothered with their children, so the sinful practice of Child Evangelism developed. This was part of some grand religious conspiracy to divide families into different age groups, robbing the family priest male overseer of his duty of discerning all religious material for the family, interfering with his ability to catechize his children properly. Per this view, Sunday School in churches came about as a strange, new practice because of the influence of Cultural Marxism. I might find some of this persuasive, but I grew up in an Evangelical Christian denomination that taught Child Evangelism and established it as a specific field of religious study at about the same time as the founding of Frankfurt School. I am beyond convinced that Annie Beisel who founded the first Assemblies of God church and Bible College in Pennsylvania through which I received my basic Christian training never took marching orders from them. I'm also certain that the late Professor Emeritus, Dr. Robert O'Bannon of Lee University who trained my mentors (Boyd and Hanks) wholeheartedly rejected CRT. But this also illustrates the elitist mindset of this group of Baptists because they deny my status as a legitimate Christian. (They do not see the irony that this view of other Christians is as unfair as CRT's view that there is no intermediary category between the oppressor and the oppressed.) Use Knowledge to Disarm and Reclaim Distorted Language When most people hear the term "social justice," they do not understand it as a command from ideologues to take up arms against capitalists everywhere to destroy oppression in the world and topple the oppressors to equilibrate and redistribute their wealth by any means necessary. Most Christians, in particular, have likely never heard word one about CRT before the recent revival of it within the Quiverfull Movement which the Southern Baptists were happy to grasp because it creates a bogeyman to blame. When talking with a Christian apologist recently, he told me that I was in error as a Christian and no different than the evangelists of wokeism if I continued to use the term. I don't agree with that or the idea of CRT as the newly identified bogeyman. I believe the term can generate discussion about such matters, and I don't think that Christians should eschew it. While Christians should be informed about the history of the Frankfurt School and their theories and how modern-day groups like Black Lives Matter incorporate CRT into their views as part of the discussion of the philosophical influences that have shaped America, I think that most people talk about social justice in the context of the term's own simple meaning. While the ideology contrasts with an Evangelical orthodoxy, I do not believe it's public enemy No.1. The Church serves as our worst enemy. Our grand failure lies in failing to live as discerning and loving Christians within our society as we promote institutions that often do more harm than good. My best hope for America and the Church is much like what Suzanne Titkemeyer has said – that we will eventually stop swinging between extremes to find a place of plumb near the center that provides everyone with a reasonable, equitable balance of power. Over the last century, the Church blew so many opportunities to change for the better. Maybe God has employed the Rod of Men (2 Samuel 7:14) to bring about the desperately needed change, accomplishing what the Church in America neglected for centuries. I recommend two good and free (!) resources that can help you get started so that you can learn more about the discussion, both of them videos: an Interview with Doug Groothuis (book) and a lecture by Neil Shenvi (blog post). Listen, read, and then make up your own mind about what it all means. Engage other people in respectful discussions, and if you don't know how to do that with humility and patience, you can pick up some tips HERE. And Suzanne recommends reading Reddit's breakdown of the new 2022 Frankfurt Declaration which refers to social justice." target="_blank"> Rosato's Harriet Tubman Mural</a></td></tr></tbody></table>Most regular people understand the term "social justice" in terms of common vernacular in the US -- through the simple meaning of the words themselves. In society, especially in America, our government aspires to grant each citizen rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We've spent our whole history working to make those liberties equally available to all her citizens. To most people, most Christians included, "social justice" means just that. It is the aspiration to see all people in society treated fairly and justly. Unless someone's taken particular classes in college or read specific literature that offers a different definition, most people understand these simple words in only that context. <span></span></div><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/03/the-equivocation-problem-with-social.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-63399586575753775322023-03-10T09:37:00.004-05:002023-03-16T03:26:24.095-04:00Answering Scot McKnight's Question: "What Made Josh Butler's TGC Article Different?"<p></p><p class="MsoNormal"></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="faithful" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;" target="_blank"><img border="0" data-original-height="670" data-original-width="440" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEipdAKK05_-1DCi8a_6uvCjY1nYqaVevph-gaY7SgVkNDg3nOLpz2ewl2wfdpMwzh45pA7IJM3tx-d3Nc-3uhoYAzf3Uxl6Nmdw6lnZCn4g9BUhTCdqRtppqIQJzYGiFM8Jb8HplihzYG9iw1oaVc0GF94EGKdPheW_dBtveczuCHZrY_2B71ZSfanKXA/s320/CINDY%20book%20pic.webp" width="210"></a></div>This week, I listened to two podcasts about the controversy
that ensued concerning Josh Butler's<a href="https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/sex-wont-save-you/"><span class="172"> book excerpt</span></a> that appeared on The Gospel Coalition (TGC)
website on March 1.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>A friend gave me a
link to the<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/preventing-grace-podcast-the-keller-center-and/id1102071413?i=1000602989846"><span class="172"> Preventing Grace Podcast</span></a>, claiming that they expressed
some of the same ideas that I did, asking that people would extend mercy to the
author.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>While I did not find Butler's
material to be that difficult in light of other teachings, I became quite
triggered by the hosts' straw man mischaracterizations of Butler's critics,
along with their claims that his writing was beautiful.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>(Apparently, we prudish, small-minded people
who cry "misogyny" at every turn only look for material to use to
destroy those with a different view.)<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">
</span>The following day, I listened to a <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/a-response-to-josh-butler/id1078739516?i=1000603416426"><span class="172">podcast</span></a> that posed questions I'd already been thinking
about because of my thoughts from the previous day.<span></span><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/03/answering-scot-mcknights-question-what.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-48436776068559211182023-03-04T13:40:00.006-05:002023-03-16T03:25:42.394-04:00Sex is not a Hermeneutic & A Prayer for Truth and Unity: (Reflecting on The Gospel Coalition This Week)<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiPyXULzmTjujy6u3gSAiQmd0hUpGGuaEjpSHLaYlltXDH3TeoCj3mQ5eg1wePtnUvpezkoDt8fXc-frpwh7F1lIXNkX7fem9RQz6xus63GCCu7MmEuJlerDH0vKIQquZGzhSYaYF4nTH2f7kmwfSzQ0jEkdW3_8qn7rWDowAmEotMNODc7exEFxrDZpg/s942/Sheila%20liked%20my%20tweets.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="284" data-original-width="942" height="192" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiPyXULzmTjujy6u3gSAiQmd0hUpGGuaEjpSHLaYlltXDH3TeoCj3mQ5eg1wePtnUvpezkoDt8fXc-frpwh7F1lIXNkX7fem9RQz6xus63GCCu7MmEuJlerDH0vKIQquZGzhSYaYF4nTH2f7kmwfSzQ0jEkdW3_8qn7rWDowAmEotMNODc7exEFxrDZpg/w640-h192/Sheila%20liked%20my%20tweets.jpg" width="640"></a></span></div><span face="Arial, sans-serif">I thought I'd mention some positive follow-up after my bombastically titled <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/03/the-spermeneutics-of-spread-your-legs.html">blog post</a> a few days ago that spoke to problematic statements in a blog post at The Gospel Coalition (TGC) website. <span></span></span><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/03/sex-is-not-hermeneutic-prayer-for-truth.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-4216159515842781822023-03-02T18:44:00.006-05:002023-03-16T03:25:57.467-04:00The Spermeneutics of Spread Your Legs Theology<p align="LEFT" style="margin-bottom: 0.08in;"><span style="color: black;"><span face="webkit-standard"></span></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span style="color: black;"><span face="webkit-standard"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh1XDMEm7SJY83_LXCrExm7SE6GzJXUFqQW97Rt5-ZlZVinauPRhaWO59QSO0r5P6cE2f0LBA9_GETediHMtHLvRxCE_Tn-waMYAg-RuR6ZAjmm0y9mgwr9Oxtr18uC1u-7mBFgzWfA9YYIposq7RaUpMJUOwTeyCIEajFTWldADvTpKwLiwL-0uRCaSw/s1438/TCG%20on%20ejaculate.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1438" data-original-width="1168" height="640" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh1XDMEm7SJY83_LXCrExm7SE6GzJXUFqQW97Rt5-ZlZVinauPRhaWO59QSO0r5P6cE2f0LBA9_GETediHMtHLvRxCE_Tn-waMYAg-RuR6ZAjmm0y9mgwr9Oxtr18uC1u-7mBFgzWfA9YYIposq7RaUpMJUOwTeyCIEajFTWldADvTpKwLiwL-0uRCaSw/w520-h640/TCG%20on%20ejaculate.jpg" width="520"></a></span></span></div><span style="color: black;"><span face="webkit-standard"><div><b>11Mar23 EDIT:</b></div><div style="text-align: center;"><i>At this late date, I'd rather that people read <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/03/answering-scot-mcknights-question-what.html" target="_blank">my personal reaction</a> to the article which took me nearly a week to process.</i></div><div style="text-align: center;">~~~~~</div><div><br></div><div>Well, the Gender Agenda folks just continue to get weirder. We already know about <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/search?q=Keller" target="_blank">Tim Keller's sex orgy</a> with God, and yesterday, The Gospel Coalition published an excerpt from a <a href="https://www.blogger.com/blog/post/edit/6852170436920467915/421615951584278182#" target="_blank">new book</a> by the Fellow at the <a href="https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/profile/josh-butler/">Tim Keller Center for Cultural Apologetics</a>. Read more <a href="https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/sex-wont-save-you/">HERE</a>. I didn't even include the stuff in my meme about how a woman's readiness for sex is a show of “hospitality.”</div></span></span><p></p><p align="LEFT" style="margin-bottom: 0.08in;"><span style="color: black;"><span face="webkit-standard">Someone asked me why these people like the <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/03/the-piety-of-theobros-and-bully-pulpit.html">Theobros</a> make everything so weird. Well, let's break it down. We've used good hermeneutics to study good theology. Now, you'll hear some spermeneutics to learn about <a href="https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2015/08/24/will-anna-duggar-be-offered-as-the-next-live-sacrifice-to-save-the-duggar-family-brand-scapegoating-spread-your-legs-theology-and-the-modern-molech/">Spread Your Legs Theology</a>. (<a href="https://www.amazon.com/Dethroning-Male-Headship-Shirley-Taylor-ebook/dp/B019S0704Q/ref=sr_1_1?crid=31VIUY4SHPNNS&keywords=dethroning+male+headship&qid=1677794463&sprefix=dethroning+male+headship,aps,105&sr=8-1">Shirley Taylor</a> gets credit for naming this theology. It's like a sanitized version of the <a href="https://www.studysmarter.us/explanations/history/democracy-and-dictatorship-in-germany/kinder-kueche-kirche/">Kinder, Küche, and Kirche</a>, but it's remade to be Biblical for Christians.)<span></span></span></span></p><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/03/the-spermeneutics-of-spread-your-legs.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-38988600172705678712023-02-10T08:09:00.003-05:002023-03-04T05:47:42.674-05:00Powerful Books and Marriage Minutes<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"></span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjd3aZb-34o4aUxXIneM3ibBzBQZaTsPDYwbGZ7_mZcobQhqPI8JzrUBR490VDABwPm1QOep0OxgVq6Wy3uR4Y3kGBkBk1MedPrO3hHGuUFuZp76e4I_-N2DhTkdgC1pmDTPI7VG_TXOxmWJa1ih1PK0QurMuKVdLbPHkgWZC8J0ermJverR4LU8poQeQ/s892/Power%20of%20a%20Book%20Header.jpg" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="882" data-original-width="892" height="316" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjd3aZb-34o4aUxXIneM3ibBzBQZaTsPDYwbGZ7_mZcobQhqPI8JzrUBR490VDABwPm1QOep0OxgVq6Wy3uR4Y3kGBkBk1MedPrO3hHGuUFuZp76e4I_-N2DhTkdgC1pmDTPI7VG_TXOxmWJa1ih1PK0QurMuKVdLbPHkgWZC8J0ermJverR4LU8poQeQ/s320/Power%20of%20a%20Book%20Header.jpg" width="320"></a></span></div><span face="Arial, sans-serif">When I started writing this blog, I hoped to change the problem of spiritual and related domestic abuse in certain Evangelical churches. I didn't think I'd manage to do much. Still, I felt responsible for doing what I could to voice my experiences and offer some good reasons and resources to help people reconsider allegedly Christian ideas that both actively and passively facilitated these abuses. <span></span></span><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2023/02/powerful-books-and-marriage-minutes.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-39033487251295215832022-12-02T16:10:00.005-05:002023-03-04T05:33:58.018-05:00Shirley Taylor on Advent Hope: It's Groundhog Day All Over Again<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh6QWRBR3F6r4Ro31wUUY9mZ6yGIBb-9t3q_queUsVAn5ssXzf-I-t3rtGcrMeQa30jAYIbU5q0eLuo_Hk51JqTVwpGf-6Xwaf_UxAMDENl9atYTcbBbaMXxZG0EgaMJBbtxYhaZ44VEO4HKxkzpjV3sFSGmnOrvXV1sOJzuZRQ5NgO-EuP1rfe3ocwsg/s2970/Serpent's%20head.png" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1298" data-original-width="2970" height="280" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh6QWRBR3F6r4Ro31wUUY9mZ6yGIBb-9t3q_queUsVAn5ssXzf-I-t3rtGcrMeQa30jAYIbU5q0eLuo_Hk51JqTVwpGf-6Xwaf_UxAMDENl9atYTcbBbaMXxZG0EgaMJBbtxYhaZ44VEO4HKxkzpjV3sFSGmnOrvXV1sOJzuZRQ5NgO-EuP1rfe3ocwsg/w640-h280/Serpent's%20head.png" width="640"></a></div><br><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><br></span><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in; text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><b>Shirley Taylor on <a href="https://bwebaptistwomenforequality.wordpress.com/2016/11/25/advent-hope-groundhog-day-all-over-again/" target="_blank">Advent Hope: It's Groundhog Day All Over Again</a></b></span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: arial;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif">Each year the liturgical calendar gets reset and we begin again with where it began. We know what is going to happen to Jesus at Easter, but each November we begin by retelling the story from the beginning, all over again. We get a new chance like Phil the weatherman did in the movie </span><em><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog_Day_(film)" target="_blank"><span style="color: #0675c4;"><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><span><span style="font-size: medium; font-style: normal;"><u>Groundhog Day</u></span></span></span></span></a></em><span face="Arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size: medium;">. </span>We hope this year we get it right.<span></span></span></span></p><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2022/12/shirley-taylor-on-advent-hope-its.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-67923203579651031052021-12-22T00:16:00.002-05:002023-03-04T05:34:31.089-05:00The First Step Towards Understanding Jill and Jessa Duggar’s Fox Interview: Second Generation Adults in Cultic/High Demand Religion<div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">
<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Growing-Up-Duggar-About-Relationships/dp/1451679165/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1433688216&sr=8-1&keywords=growing+up+duggar" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjMYglPEAKUCUTkoRUfFXdd8bswoOpNXMwToj_6BMQGNxR3PMN384qplLVLBL8KLnD5gwBg13CVCoR8JA_O0lAX0vQFx8WeS-JLhFPMi_dOcMnB4Ud2Phlf6Uh9XAWpceqGh_XMaYfFqNIN/s320/GUD.png" width="220"></a></div>
<div class="p1" style="text-align: center;"><span class="s1"><b>Originally published 07Jun2015</b></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1"><br></span></div><div class="p1">
<span class="s1">A host of resources exist exploring the characteristics of the subculture of the <a href="http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/"><span class="s2">Quiverfull Movement</span></a> (which is often synonymous with Patriarchy within evangelical Christian homeschooling circles). As the new generation that this movement produced finds their voice, there appears to be little information about the process of how this group in particular has affected the development of the now adult “arrows” of their parents’ quivers <choke gag="">, especially for those who remain within their religious culture of origin.<span></span></choke></span></div><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2015/06/the-first-step-towards-understanding.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-56850782556404658182021-12-13T02:45:00.007-05:002023-10-17T17:16:15.357-04:00Michelle Duggar's Thousand Yard Stare of Dissociation?<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"></p><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" class="tr-caption-container" style="float: left;"><tbody><tr><td style="text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEh34yCIFyAu5kBDYaZsWdv7nFgWZ4cKlC2SrGC3ki8LmxhdOMjI1ZbvJfqvPHac3cDqPGs3KgTvb6lVwQX-7vd0_GGAj_KRTTKlSSRqm70WT1jRvB3HM4bsdbrSeHLhKqtkSXBwISLDdTf_DeJ2GRpo-9sOs_aTCnO6aNW1CvMPqKb9ys5K5suQDxRhlQ=s896" style="clear: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto;"><img border="0" data-original-height="744" data-original-width="896" height="333" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEh34yCIFyAu5kBDYaZsWdv7nFgWZ4cKlC2SrGC3ki8LmxhdOMjI1ZbvJfqvPHac3cDqPGs3KgTvb6lVwQX-7vd0_GGAj_KRTTKlSSRqm70WT1jRvB3HM4bsdbrSeHLhKqtkSXBwISLDdTf_DeJ2GRpo-9sOs_aTCnO6aNW1CvMPqKb9ys5K5suQDxRhlQ=w400-h333" width="400"></a></td></tr><tr><td class="tr-caption" style="text-align: center;">Photo from 1994 with<a href="https://bethariel.org/leadership" target="_blank"> Dr Derechinsky</a></td></tr></tbody></table>I remember showing someone a photo of my husband and me that was taken at the big <a href="https://davidandersontheauthor.com/2021/08/18/word-of-faith-and-a-cult-checklist/">Word of Faith</a> church that I attended when I lived in the Bible Belt. It was the first Valentine's Day during our first year of marriage, and had a dinner at a nice restaurant. They hired Zig Ziggler to speak, and a professional photographer who attended the church took beautiful photos. I bought a bunch of wallet sized ones to send to relatives. A year or two later, I looked through my wallet for a certification card, and I pulled out the picture to show to a coworker. I would not realize what she meant for a number of years later, and I felt odd that she thought that I looked "scared."<span></span><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2021/12/michelle-duggars-thousand-yard-stare-of.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-74872440830198308642021-12-11T04:45:00.008-05:002021-12-16T21:00:48.464-05:00Why Anna Duggar Stays: The Bounded Choice of a Second Generation Adult in a Cultic Sect<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEgIwns5CTMFYpn32nY8XGi6bFvsyW3G96J4vh1hiaVK1b4RRhcLx09_UN3cVChA1CeCdioGgDBYkV_0T4hjyzgPIzbo1gZgRonsd5LpfgCZkEFTeFDS3e5CAAYpzzPyZKfEN0qRwlUDGvH5AS-nijBdBR65-II-Ym-oVW2_oV8OFY-e0lqmTIgLQ30vtQ=s1370" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="652" data-original-width="1370" height="190" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEgIwns5CTMFYpn32nY8XGi6bFvsyW3G96J4vh1hiaVK1b4RRhcLx09_UN3cVChA1CeCdioGgDBYkV_0T4hjyzgPIzbo1gZgRonsd5LpfgCZkEFTeFDS3e5CAAYpzzPyZKfEN0qRwlUDGvH5AS-nijBdBR65-II-Ym-oVW2_oV8OFY-e0lqmTIgLQ30vtQ=w400-h190" width="400"></a></div>This <a href="https://bit.ly/LJStewartOnAnnaDuggar">excellent, real-world description</a> of the Bounded Choice of a Second Generation Adult (SGA) in a spiritually abusive or cultic church (what some call sects or cults) by <a href="https://bit.ly/LJStewartOnAnnaDuggar">LJ (Melissa) Stewart on Tik-Tok</a> may help me write my shortest definitions of these terms ever. <i><b>I find only one tiny flaw in her presentation</b></i>. (Read more about it <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2021/12/one-tiny-thing-that-i-think-lisa-got.html">HERE</a>.)<p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;">She <i><b>rightly states</b></i> that Bill Gothard's Independent Baptist (IFB) derived-system teaches that <a href="https://brucegerencser.net/2021/10/why-do-so-many-evangelicals-abuse-their-children/">Anna's sins are no worse than Josh's crimes</a>. </p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><i></i></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><i><iframe allowfullscreen="" class="BLOG_video_class" height="266" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-hs4R5WwRXk" width="320" youtube-src-id="-hs4R5WwRXk"></iframe></i></div><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;">She <b style="font-style: italic;">neglects to note</b> that the Duggars are also very personally connected to IFB family and marriage experts <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20041209135029/http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/tracts/index.html">Ron Williams</a> and <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20210228215751/https://www.solvefamilyproblems.org/product-p/submission.htm">SM Davis</a>. Those men teach that Anna's marital sex with Josh and her submission to him as a wife held the power to cure and fix Josh, so any sexual sins or crimes he committed after their wedding night <i><b>fall entirely on her shoulders</b></i>. <span></span></p><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2021/12/why-anna-duggar-stays-bounded-choice-of.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-49207010397383481042021-12-11T04:36:00.010-05:002021-12-16T21:00:28.934-05:00One Tiny Thing that I Think Stewart Got Wrong: The Theology Says Anna Duggar's to Blame<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEgfKoWk5AVhXgMPRPSbzB_TFKjoiMCaVDXmCEJG8hZle9ttM5fhsjT952wvcGF9Gr9Aqi0ndKKdlFS_-eNoSgO4FIyhnxI-MqjdA0TDFy_WkZwMhO2N1Si3KCJEvyYZMciX_glm67BPnR8ee9flH4pYaVHRnQMKpN3gNxd8L9gZST7wR72bmgyWiA7NHA=s450" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="450" data-original-width="450" height="162" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEgfKoWk5AVhXgMPRPSbzB_TFKjoiMCaVDXmCEJG8hZle9ttM5fhsjT952wvcGF9Gr9Aqi0ndKKdlFS_-eNoSgO4FIyhnxI-MqjdA0TDFy_WkZwMhO2N1Si3KCJEvyYZMciX_glm67BPnR8ee9flH4pYaVHRnQMKpN3gNxd8L9gZST7wR72bmgyWiA7NHA=w162-h162" width="162"></a></div><span style="font-family: arial;">In a <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2021/12/why-anna-duggar-stays-bounded-choice-of.html">previous post</a>, I note that <a href="https://www.tiktok.com/@lissajostewart/video/7039857005242092805?_d=secCgYIASAHKAESPgo8h4/8qeTC%2BKMU04vLju8r3GheHvNuJ2XugD1oM5yHNhKJUn8tdl4r/0nrHAvEySE5JZjioFWKQMwFhuf6GgA%3D&language=en&preview_pb=0&sec_user_id=MS4wLjABAAAAkmq_zupNA_DeB7c6qea-HVlnPhDX-oXS9y4H2sptqts_ao5MjirRZaLW1SmfRGK0&share_app_id=1233&share_item_id=7039857005242092805&share_link_id=c03edee0-d2ac-4916-aff6-e61c0ebb0870&source=h5_m&timestamp=1639149929&u_code=dh3emh9ige34bm&user_id=6928500711009469445&utm_campaign=client_share&utm_medium=android&utm_source=copy&_r=1&is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1">Lisa J.(Melissa) Stewart did an excellent job</a> via TikTok of explaining the issues of Bounded Choice faced by Second Generation Adults in Cultic Religious Sects like the one followed by the Duggars. The discussion has arisen because people outside of this fringe subculture do not understand why Anna Duggar does not just leave her husband Josh after so many successive problems with disturbing sexual exploits which have now culminated in <a href="https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/09/us/josh-duggar-child-pornography/index.html">his conviction this week</a> for possession of child pornography.</span><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="font-family: arial;">As previously noted, she <i><b>rightly states</b></i> that Bill Gothard's Independent Baptist (IFB) derived-system teaches that <a href="https://brucegerencser.net/2021/10/why-do-so-many-evangelicals-abuse-their-children/">Anna's sins are no worse than Josh's crimes</a>, <i><b>but she neglects to note</b></i> that the Duggars are also very personally and directly connected to IFB family and marriage experts <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20041209135029/http://www.hephzibahhouse.org/tracts/index.html">Ron Williams</a> and <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20210228215751/https://www.solvefamilyproblems.org/product-p/submission.htm">SM Davis</a>. Those men teach that Anna's marital sex with Josh and her submission to him as a wife held the power to cure and fix Josh, so any sexual sins or crimes he committed after their wedding night <i><b>fall entirely on her shoulders</b></i>. Luckily, tabloids <a href="https://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/josh-and-anna-duggars-kids-react-to-his-guilty-verdict/">currently claim</a> that Josh's parents are pledging their support to Anna, but I know that IFB pastors have blamed innocent wives for acts far worse than Josh's crimes and held the wife as the primary cause and fault for their husband's behaviors.</span></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><iframe allowfullscreen="" class="BLOG_video_class" height="266" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/-hs4R5WwRXk" width="320" youtube-src-id="-hs4R5WwRXk"></iframe></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span></span></div><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2021/12/one-tiny-thing-that-i-think-lisa-got.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-23679026208809258792021-12-10T23:12:00.003-05:002021-12-16T20:59:51.639-05:00Religious Sects Often Oppose Extended Family Adoptions to Save the Souls of Surviving Minors<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><a href="https://www.watchman.org/profiles/pdf/spiritualabuseprofile.pdf"></a></p><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://www.thebeyondzionfoundation.com/about" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="576" data-original-width="494" height="320" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEjcHenSEk-RC6F27fbscfgVQ6kxL7HrD41L14iax9fCPEZC8MGcOW9RhuD7RDWoLKrGRoYdjZQeapwBmj04ZAz5JlLBiRfnCV5Z6ERqRW4lzoESRUnKQ-zR-iFxVAwfjyFOpmv1HMRL_AjtNykCYb8mQ8ZP9ZG7d1qo31Fo_H0m2MqM6sc_3RTLMWkX3w=s320" width="274"></a></div>David Henke identified that Spiritually Abusive Christian groups believe that their particular sect is far more <a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/search?q=Image+Conscious"><i><b>special to God</b></i></a> than all other Christians. They have a special corner on truth that makes them better or more holy than other people, and their group alone ensures the best future. Hand in hand with this, groups retain members with the flipside of their elite status by fostering the belief that life outside of their group is evil, and those who exit will be in danger of eternal damnation.<p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;">As the recent documentary about <a href="https://www.spiritwatch.org/gwencult.htm">Gwen Shamblin's Remnant Fellowship</a> church points out so well, commitment to the group overshadows and overrides any commitment that their non-member family members have with their group. If families urge their loved ones to leave, in order to maintain good standing with the group, they are expected by the church (and bullied by them) to shun these critical family members.<span></span></p><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2021/12/religious-sects-often-oppose-extended.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6852170436920467915.post-17402064037991389532021-12-10T08:26:00.002-05:002021-12-16T20:59:21.787-05:00Contemplating Josh Duggar's Guilty Verdict<p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="color: black;"></span></p><br><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEjispkk9pIHx8JwZz9NU1Q9JWaYYKOK1lBR3fzrMqM26BC1k8DO0eLo-Xnl0s4GkHQXcyCkTCElINKr1k8oNwnmyJhy4rhuYd4boPbDMe6Usd67ca-PlW-kWtQUIdVaXVN-39Ue-l19hTZ1Gm50Bi3yq0bEPm29Bcg0LAL9wKebYxtQc3SLf1rAUHrd9A=s958" style="clear: left; float: left; margin-bottom: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="926" data-original-width="958" height="309" src="https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEjispkk9pIHx8JwZz9NU1Q9JWaYYKOK1lBR3fzrMqM26BC1k8DO0eLo-Xnl0s4GkHQXcyCkTCElINKr1k8oNwnmyJhy4rhuYd4boPbDMe6Usd67ca-PlW-kWtQUIdVaXVN-39Ue-l19hTZ1Gm50Bi3yq0bEPm29Bcg0LAL9wKebYxtQc3SLf1rAUHrd9A=s320" width="320"></a></div><div style="text-align: left;">I cried for the better part of an hour today after someone phoned and told me about the guilty verdict in the Josh Duggar case. (He will be sentenced in four weeks.) Since that friend and I talked it through, it's been a slow, irregular leaking of tears ever since. I'm ready to put my head on my pillow to get much-needed rest.</div></div><p></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="color: black;">Some of my tears were a release, knowing that for those who have suffered harm because of this religious system or even just abuse and loss that is similar to each of the players in the events concerning the Duggars, it is a vindication for them. We all need that, I think. Justice is healing for us all.</span></p><p style="margin-bottom: 0in;"><span style="color: black;">But it struck me that, to put it concisely when horrible things happen and when people do horrible things, the consequences are lousy and sad if not horrible all around. The collateral damage has been so high for so long. The ramifications of this range from sad for some to tragic for others. So I feel quite melancholy this evening but satisfied at the same time.<span></span></span></p><a href="https://undermuchgrace.blogspot.com/2021/12/contemplating-josh-duggars-guilty.html#more">Click HERE to CONTINUE READING:</a>Cynthia Kunsmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.com