Using the Milgram Study to Understand How Pearl Becomes Appealing: Why Good People Make Dangerous Choices (Pondering Pearl and Lydia Schatz) Part IX

What We Can Learn 

From Milgram

In his book, The Lucifer Effect, Dr. Philip Zimbardo offers a list of ten primary elements of Stanley Milgram's Experiment that reinforced and enhanced the compliance of the study subjects. 

Using a unique mix of factors, the study played upon human tendency and nature, essentially exploiting those human traits in an attempt to arrive at some kind of reliable number that allows us to put the human capacity for evil into perspective. Being aware of subtle processes of manipulation which some people use as techniques gives a person much more power of choice and confidence to resist subtle manipulation in the future.

If you haven't watched the video of Zimbardo at MIT, please take time to do so – at least, just the portion about Stanley Milgram's Study of blind obedience to authority. Also, if you've not done so before, please read back through the previous posts on this topic, also taking special note of this post on moral disengagement as well as the post about the Milgram Experiment. Cialdini's “Weapons of Influence” are also very helpful when working toward a better understanding of why people complied in the Milgram Experiment, capitalizing on human nature and tendency.

(There will be a few more posts on this subject to come in the future, too.)

We can learn from the Schatz Family, because like so many others within Christian homeschooling and other such communities, I believe that all of these factors contributed to their progressive loss of perspective of which Michael Pearl's teachings were only a part. So many additional factors become part of the mix of Christian living because individuals who are convicted that a certain practice is Biblical for them preach their preferences as moral imperatives. These factors and more (many listed in the sidebar here at UnderMuchGrace.com) create the perfect storm that caught up the Schatz family – a storm that could well be true of all of us. May we learn the lessons from the tragic example they have set for us.

May their sad experience be like a beacon of warning for us as Christians and as people.

Please don't miss the Moral in Milgram at the end of this post!

Ten Methods

that Enhance Comliance with

Ethically Questionable Systems

(Adapted from The Lucifer Effect, pp. 273-5)

~ With a Comparison to the Pearl Method ~

1.) Pre-arrange a verbal or written contract at the beginning of interactions, something directed at complying with an agreed upon behavior.

• Pearl Method: The system defines good, dutiful, loving Christian parents as those who who follow the method.
  • The expectation is reinforced within homeschooling communities through social pressure, and sometimes in their churches.
  • In order to prove to yourself and others that you are a good parent and truly Christian, you are expected to follow those expectations that are part of the unwritten contract enforced by social control and pressure within churches and homeschooling groups.
  • People will go to great lengths to prove to themselves and others that they are consistent with commitments that they have made.
  • It is human nature to “stick with the program.”

2.) Give participants a meaningful role to play that builds upon positive and honorable values and those roles that have automatic responses associated with them. (Milgram assigned status of “teacher” which is understood culturally, usually in a positive light.)

• Pearl Method: The good parent comes along and reads a book with many good ideas in it.
  • Following the program has been framed out by a good minister as the only good way for good parents to raise good children.
  • It's all about the ideals and one's Christian mission and duty in life.

3.) Imperative rules that seem to make sense can be presented to participants can be be argued in advance of the interaction. These rules can be used at a later time to justify and enforce mindless compliance. People will feel committed to them because they believed and accepted them initially, before they had an opportunity to really think about them. This can be exploited later.

• Pearl Method: Christians naturally want to do what the Bible teaches, and Pearl's new rules can be enforced by stressing their divine nature which bypasses most people's radar when they don't scrutinize the nature of those new rules.
  • Parents are also told later in the process that if they don't follow the formula, their children will suffer physically and spiritually, ultimately dying physically and spiritually.
  • By the time the true nature of the risks are fully realized, the person has already become very deeply invested in the system and committed to it.
  • At this point, it becomes easier to follow the process rather than to exit from it.

4.) Changing the language used to describe the process from either benign or negative terms into those which connote pleasant, virtuous, and lofty ideals obscure the true nature of the dynamics. Doing something unpleasant can be redefined as something beneficial, meaningful, and good.

• Pearl Method: Parents are told that resorting to physical discipline is what God Himself has prescribed for them.
  • Corporal punishment is reframed as “chastisement” which carries the connotation of Hebrews Chapter 12, and this Biblical language reinforces the elite nature of corporal punishment as an act of Christian virtue.
  • “Spanking” replaces “beating.” A “switch” replaces a “whip.”
  • People also identify the “rod” as a Biblical term and what God requires of them as the method frames it for them.
  • Not everything defined as “Biblical” is really so – and the term itself is a big “thought-stopping cliche” within Christian groups.
  • People take the shortcut and trust the term without searching out the validity of its use because it's easier.

5.) The system exploits participants by “creating opportunities for the diffusion of responsibility.” They are lead to believe that they will be exempt of responsibility for negative outcomes if they follow the prescribed pattern of behavior (moral disengagement). Someone else will be held responsible and they will not be liable.

• Pearl Method: Parents are promised that the system cannot fail if it is followed consistently and will yield great benefits for parent, child, church and society.
  • It will also please God and will satisfy the requirements He demands.
  • The system itself, because it has so strongly been identified with God Himself, is never questioned as potentially unreliable as a misguided one with good intentions.
  • The promised virtuous outcome justifies the means used to gain that outcome.
  • The system itself is responsible, and God is responsible.
  • God will eventually justify those who stepped out in faith. Only reward can result from following the system.

6.) The “path toward the ultimate evil” begins with very small, incremental changes. Biderman's Chart of Coercion points this out very well, and complete compliance is surrendered in small steps. It is essentially a slippery slope of increasingly greater requests or requirements of compliance.

Each step takes you a little closer to the cliff's edge as though there is no cliff to fall from at all. Because of the gradual changes over time and because of a loss of perspective, you don't realize just how many changes you've made over time until you've fallen over the edge.

• Pearl Method: On the surface of things, parents just expect to spank their children when things become necessary but soon realize that, according to the program, a parent must spank very often.
  • For the program to work properly, consistency is required without room for error.
  • You can't just quit the program, or it won't work. It's comprehensive.
  • The program demands more and more over time and becomes a whole lifestyle.

7.) With each incremental step in the process, a new and slightly increased level of compliance or intensity must be introduced. The increases are framed as so indiscernible that they are insignificant. (In Milgram's study, the first shocks that were delivered seemed to be relatively benign and mild, but they progressed from 15 volts to a deadly 450 volts at the end of the study.)

• Pearl Method: Parents soon realize that it is not just enough to spank, but they must inflict the requisite amount of pain for the system to work properly.
  • They have to increase the intensity of the force used or the length of the practice to get the desired effect.
    • You might decide that the paint stick or the designated paddle has worn out its usefulness and you might switch to the plumbing line for “better results.” Then you might find that you need it in every room, and then you need to carry it around in your purse.
  • As the child ages, it gives to reason that greater force must be used to achieve this effect.
  • I find it interesting that the Pearls loose many followers at this juncture, finding that it is either not necessary to get the harsh sounding recommended implements, or they find the whole plumbing line option to be a little too strange.

8.) Gradually changing the ethical nature of the authority figure from a good, trustworthy and “just” person who behaves reasonably into a bad, demanding, authoritarian, “unjust”, and perhaps irrational person. The confusion enhances the compliance, and people generally respond with mindless obedience. The inconsistency tends to galvanize compliance in a manner very similar to that of women in “date rape” and domestic abuse situations.

• Pearl Method: Elements of the Method are quite good, and some of the concepts that it teaches are very sound.
  • Consistency, structure, and teaching consequences does help children. So parents get quite a lot out of these beneficial elements of the Model.
  • The Pearls talk about love and their duty to both their children and to God to do the right thing.
  • But that concept does not match the aggressive nature of the harsh and often unbridled punishment methods.
  • Peers and church leaders take on the primary authoritarian role, showing painful disapproval for non-compliance. Doubt is discouraged or punished.
  • The inconsistency induces cognitive dissonance which makes people very compliant and greatly compromises their critical thinking ability.

9.) Compliance increases when the process makes it difficult to nearly impossible to comfortably exit the process. In the Milgram study, the “teacher”/subject was permitted to voice their verbal dissent so that they could feel at ease with the moral dilemma, but at the same time, they were required to continue with the process.

• Pearl Method: Parents are told that though they may not like their role, they are required to continue to keep their own salvation and to properly care for their children.
  • There is no exit, and the consequences are defined as eternal.
  • In “hard” complementarianism which the Pearls also observe, women often talk of repenting of their sin of not liking the limits of their role, but they are still required to suppress their desires and comply, even though it doesn't feel good or natural to them.

10.) Ideology or offering “a big lie” to justify the process and the system reinforces the idea that the system can and should resort to necessary means to achieve the benefit and the virtuous endpoint.

“In social psychology experiments, this tactic is known as a 'cover story' because it is a cover-up for the procedures that follow, which might be challenged because they do not make sense on their own. The real-world equivalent is known as an 'ideology'” (pg. 274).

• Pearl Method: Following the formula promises to solve discipline problems as well as shape and prepare a child for an increased if not guaranteed Christian status.
  • The parent will be rewarded in many ways for their dutiful Christian service and for their parenting efforts.
  • This ideology is actually a strong component in every one of the conditions in Zimbardo's list about the Milgram experiment because of the religious nature of the Pearl Method.
  • It isn't only a program which uses coercion to increase compliance of participants – the program defines and redefines one's Christianity and Christian status in terms of the program itself and compliance with it.

The Moral in Milgram

“Such procedures are utilized in varied influence situations where

those in authority want others to do their bidding but

know that few would engage in the “end game”

without first being properly prepared psychologically

to do the “unthinkable.”

In the future,

when you are in a compromising position

where your compliance is at stake, 

thinking back to these stepping-stones to mindless obedience

may enable you to step back and

not go all the way down the path – their path.

A good way to avoid crimes of obedience

is to assert one's own personal authority and

always take full responsibility for one's own actions. “

~ Zimbardo, pg 275

referencing Kelman & Hamilton

in Crimes of Obedience:

Toward a Social Psychology of Authority and Responsibility

Click here to read the entire series on the archive.

• A list of ALL POSTS related to Lydia Schatz, Michael Pearl, and Blind Obedience
• CNN's Reports about the deaths of Lydia Schatz and Hannah Williams, and interviews with Michael Pearl on AC360 and Dr. Drew.
• Posts about Kidney Disease related to the Pearl Method
• Posts about Harm to Children through discipline for religious reasons (including Pearl)

Photo of Tina Anderson and Jocelyn Zichterman from the IFB Cult Survivors Facebook Page

Tina Anderson, left, and Jocelyn Zichterman, center, talk with supporters after a Merrimack Superior Court jury found Ernest Willis guilty of forcibly raping and impregnating his children's 15-year-old baby sitter, who belonged to the same church, more than a decade ago. (AP Photo/Alexander Cohn, Pool) AP

Ernest Willis Found Guilty of Aggravated Sexual Assault of Tina Anderson

WMUR TV News 9 in New Hampshire announced via live blogging from the courtroom today that Ernest Willis was found guilty on two counts of forcible rape and one count of felonious sexual assault of then 15 year old Tina Anderson in 1997. Willis was in his late thirties and was married with four children when the abuse occurred. 

When Anderson became pregnant by Willis as a consequence of the rapes, Pastor Chuck Phelps of Trinity Baptist Church, an Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB) affiliated church in Concord, NH, arranged for her to be sent to Colorado to carry the baby to term after being forced to repent to her congregation for “putting herself in a compromising situation.” While she was kept in social isolation and homeschooled by an albeit kind family until some time after her baby was delivered and adopted, Willis continued to have unchecked access to everyone among church congregants who were kept ignorant that Willis had committed statutory rape. Read more HERE.

ABC News reported on the matter prior to the trial in a 20/20 episode entitled Shattered Faith offers a narrative report on their website. The 20/20 Episode which aired on April 8, 2011 can be viewed HERE, and a narrative of the case appears HERE. WMUR posted this video about the verdict wherein Jocelyn Zichterman who first contacted the police regarding the reports of the dated crime on the IFB Cult Survivors Facebook page stands beside Anderson outside the courtroom, addressing the press. Zichterman was also featured in the 20/20 interview along with Anderson.

The court heard closing arguments late in the day on Thursday, May 26^th, and the jury convened at 9AM this morning, producing a verdict that was read just after 4PM per WMUR's live blogging coverage on their website. Willis was lead from the courtroom in handcuffs and will remain in custody until sentencing.

He faces a possible maximum sentence of 50 years in prison for all of the charges (including the felony of the assault per the guilty verdict and for statutory rape to which Willis confessed before the trial), though it appears that New Hampshire does not have a minimum prison term for the charges. No information has been released regarding how long Willis will have to remain in jail awaiting sentencing.

Many pastors and individuals within the IFB believe that even a very young child bears some fault if they are molested because it is believed that they have solicited the abuse in some way through overt or covert sexual behavior. Ron Williams of Hephzibah House in Winona Lake, IN and his late wife Patti have both taught that such females are “strange women” developing an entire doctrine about girls and women who have been robbed of their sexual purity. (The term “strange woman” derives from an Old Testament literal translation from Hebrew which describes prostitutes.) Many affiliated with the IFB believe that a woman loses a vital element of her worth and bear the “heart of a strange woman” for eternity after they have been violated because something about them allegedly solicited their abuse. Williams' Hephzibah House is one such dumping ground for these young women, a suburban gulag that has operated since the early 1970s that is supported and defended IFB affiliates. Though some of the abject physical abuse that took place in earlier decades at Hephzibah House has abated somewhat in response to criticism from girls who were incarcerated there, the “home for troubled girls” and their “reform program” continues to operate today. Learn more about the abuse that took place at Hephzibah House HERE at HephzibahGirls.com.

In weeks to come, this website will feature a transcription of teachings and critical commentary of Williams' doctrine of the “Strange Woman.”

An Update on the trial of Ernest Willis (regarding the charges of sexual assault of Tina Anderson)

 At the time of this posting, Ernest Willis awaits day four of his trial for aggravated sexual assault of Tina Anderson, though he has plead guilty on one count of statutory rape which he claims was consensual. A local TV station in New Hampshire, WMUR's News 9, continues their close coverage of the events in the Merrimack County Superior Court of Concord, NH.

Judge Larry Smuckler will decide today whether the prosecution will be permitted to continue to pursue aggravated assault charges. It appears, at the time of this post, that the trial regarding aggravated assault will continue. Link HERE to follow WMUR's live blogging today.

The start of the trial was delayed today (26May11) while the judge decided whether Anderson's testimony regarding Willis' offer to take Anderson out-of-state for an abortion and to punch her to induce a miscarriage has been admitted and will be presented to the jury, overriding the previous decision to exclude this testimony.

Background

When Tina (Dooley) Anderson was a child, her step-father (Daniel Leaf) went to prison twice: once in 1989 for beating her and her brother and once for molesting another minor (serving 7 years). Her own sexual abuse from ages 9 to 11 by her step-father between his prison sentences went unreported until Anderson claims to have reported the event to her pastor, Chuck Phelps. She claims that Phelps counseled her to forgive her step-father and accompanied her (as a young girl) to the prison, requiring her to tell her step-father that she forgave him. Anderson claims that Phelps taught her at that time that that she should not pursue the matter as a reportable crime, but that her forgiveness was critical and all that was necessary. (In court on May 24^th, Phelps denied any knowledge of this report and denied giving Anderson such counsel.)

When Ernest Wills, a 39 year old usher at Trinity Baptist Church in Concord, allegedly raped then 15 year old Anderson on two occasions, Anderson did not report the event, believing that the only action that should be taken was her forgiveness of her abuser. (On May 25^th, Willis claims that there was one event of petting and only one act of consensual sex.)When Anderson became pregnant, Willis reported his actions to Pastor Phelps who Anderson claims arranged for her to stay with a family Phelps knew in Colorado where she delivered the baby for whom she was permitted to choose adoptive parents.

Anderson contended to stay with her grandparents instead of staying in Colorado where she was well treated but restricted from much interaction outside of the home. 

Note that Phelps reported the incident to authorities, but it was not pursued because Anderson's mother denied the police access to her daughter at the time of the discovery of the event because she was not persuaded that her daughter had been raped. The mother noted that Anderson had no boyfriends and did not date during her court testimony, however.

Willis paid for the airfare for Anderson to travel to Colorado and acknowledged that he had fathered Anderson's child. Prior to Anderson's departure, though he required both Willis and Anderson to stand before the church to confess to promiscuity and repent before the church congregation in a public discipline process, Phelps concealed that it was Willis who had violated Anderson, a minor. Phelps reportedly called them “entirely different” matters during the public session. Willis remained a member of that congregation for many years after the event and his access to young women in the church remained unchecked without others knowing that he'd violated a 15 year old. Multiple times and in many venues, Phelps has classified the relationship between Willis and Anderson as a consensual relationship.

For additional details (some of which were not permitted to be introduced during the trial), refer to the 20/20 Episode, Shattered Faith, which aired on April 8, 2011. There is also a narrative on the 20/20 website.

Update on the Court Proceedings (as of 26May11 12 Noon)

In a video that features testimony of Willis on May 25^th, reporter Amy Coveno states that Judge Larry Smuckler may insist that the the assault charge be dropped. The Judge is currently considering whether the evidence presented concerning testimony of Anderson's protests to Willis meet the legal standard of refusal of Willis' sexual advances.

Any future dismissal of the charges does not mean that a sexual assault did not occur; it only means that there is insufficient evidence available at this late date to prove forensically whether an aggravated assault did occur. Whether there were issues related to trauma that may have interfered with how Anderson responded to the event or to the beliefs held by Anderson for being blamed which discouraged her from reporting the event; and because mother Christina Leaf prevented the police from gaining access to Anderson after the event was reported by Phelps, the actual assault charges are difficult to prove without any physical evidence of notable harm at the time.

If Judge Smuckler does decide to drop the charges, Willis will still be sentenced for his confession to statutory rape and faces a maximum sentence of seven years but with no

minimum prison requirement.

Amy Coveno's live daily blogging of the trial can be read at the WMUR website by following these links:

Day 1

Day 2

Day 3

Day 4

In addition to the aforementioned video of Willis, WMUR has also posted a video that contains some of Anderson's testimony and a clip of Pastor Chuck Phelps (whose testimony on the stand contradicts Willis' confession to only one episode of intercourse with Anderson, noting that his documentation at the time of the event states that Willis confessed to two encounters with Anderson at that time). In court on the second day of testimony, the defense asked detailed questions concerning a time line of events, though this is quite typical questioning in sexual assault cases. Anderson did not remain in the courtroom during Phelps' testimony.

Coveno (the reporter with WMUR who has been covering the trial) noted the very interesting finding in her live blogging on Day 2 of the proceedings that the IFB attorney, David Gibbs III, sat at the bench with the prosecution and Anderson. Curious.

According to the live blogging report, also on Day 2 of testimony, Christine Leaf (Anderson's estranged mother) stated that:

“Pastor Phelps had no authority to tell Tina to go to the prison to forgive Daniel Leaf [Anderson's abusive stepfather] because DCYF [NH's Child Protective Agency] was in my life.”

This seems to confirm Anderson's testimony regarding the compelled offering of forgiveness that Phelps allegedly required of her, something he would deny on the stand later that day, stating on Day 2 that he had no knowledge of any molestation of Anderson prior to the incident with Ernest Willis years later. Amy Corvino notes on Day 2 that “Tina Anderson is shaking her head and crying as Pastor Phelps denies on the stand that Tina ever told him about being physically and sexually abused by Dan Leaf.”

He denies the possibility that he may have forgotten that Anderson told him of her molestation, stating that in thirty years, he's never forgotten any child who has come to him regarding reports of abuse. Phelps states in response to this line of questioning per the live blogging:

“I never told Tina to go to prison to see her step-father. Forgive and forget is so contrary to my training and my philosophy, I teach confront.”

Amy Corvino notes on Phelps states on Day 3 of testimony:

“The Bible says if someone comes to you and says will you forgive, than you will forgive them. 'Forgive and Forget' is a philosophy that is contrary to everything I know. I never said forgive and forget.”

Phelps also read the letters of confession that he required Willis and Anderson to read to the congregation of the church in the 1997 church discipline session. From the statement that Tina Dooley [Anderson] was required to read, the live blogging notes this statement, claiming that Anderson “crafted” the letter herself and knew that it was intended to be presented publicly:

“It's with a heavy heart that I come before you to seek your forgiveness as I have already asked forgiveness of the Lord, that in the past couple of months I have been in compromising situations..."

Tina has stated that she was terrified when Phelps read Deuteronomy Chapter 22 to her when he met with her regarding the incident which includes a description of the punishment of death by stoning for fornication. She has stated that this was quite difficult and threatening to her at the time. Phelps responds as noted per the live blogging report:

“I read to Tina from Deuteronomy 22. The passage is about a maiden in a field and she is accosted by a man, the maiden screamed and no one was there to help her. Then the passage refers to a maiden in a city who is accosted by a man, she didn't scream. There is the appearance of complicity...We are in a city we want to hear you and help you...I was reading this passage to a 16 year old girl who had not been truthful with me but I did not imply that she would be stoned. That's a ridiculous application.”

This is consistent with the “strange woman” teachings of Ron Williams of the IFB's Hephzibah House, of many pastors within the IFB group, and of the teachings of Bill Gothard who maintain that women who are threatened with rape and do not “cry out” effectively are culpable in their own assault. Phelps goes on to state that because both parties met on or around Anderson's 16^th birthday at the Bedford Village Inn for dinner that he believed the relationship was consensual.

Willis gave testimony on Day 3. Prior to taking the stand, an audio tape of Willis' police interrogation was played for the jury after it was admitted as evidence. The defense contested its inclusion because detectives state that they believe Anderson's testimony. The judge instructs the jury to take into consideration that the detectives' statements do not constitute reliable evidence concerning guilt or innocence of Willis. Willis then takes the stand. A the aforementioned video clip featuring part of his testimony appears HERE.

Anderson alleges that the first sexual encounter with Willis took place in his car during driving lessons. Willis is sworn in and testifies that he did not have intercourse with Anderson at that time, but that he did initiate inappropriate sexual touching of Anderson in his car. Anderson states that when Willis accosted her the second time at her home, the encounter took place in her living room. Willis claimed in his testimony that when at Anderson's home, he asked Anderson if she wanted to have sex, and she willingly consented. He testifies that she lead him into her bedroom, they both removed their clothing, and they then proceeded to have sex in her bed. Willis claims that this is the only time that they had intercourse.

He also testifies regarding the meeting at the Bedford Village Inn on her 16^th birthday to celebrate this important day for her. (This testimony appears on the video.) Near the end of the testimony, Willis speaks more explicitly of how he approached Anderson, notes that she appeared to enjoy their encounter which indicated to him that it was consensual, and states that she gave no verbal or physical indications that she protested the encounter.

A New Review of Quivering Daughters by Midwest Christian Outreach

The new book review, Quivering Daughters Shakes Roots of Un-Biblical Patriarchy, appears in the Spring 2011 installment of the MCO Journal (Volume 17, No. 1).

From the Summary by E. Stephen Burnett:

Christians intent on finding Biblical foundations for male/female and husband/wife roles and avoiding junk to either extremeof previous “church-ianity” strains—evangelical feminism or chauvinism—will find QD [Quivering Daughters] a solid place to start.

So far, while many popular and Gospel-centric Christian leaders speak out against feminism’s wrongs, I have not yet seen much about lurking “Biblical” chauvinism that is just as prevalent in other circles.

But as the bad fruits from patriarchal, Gospel-neglecting leaders and families become more evident, I’m confident more Christian authors, bloggers, and teachers will add more books and research to the discussion. Perhaps, best of all, Christians, who want to follow Biblical roles for God’s glory and teach their own children these truths, will become more aware of the wrong leaders and teachings that are still out there; and they will seek Biblical balance in their families.

Read the entire review HERE.

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Emotional Abuse and Your Faith on BTR and Additional Resources Concerning Domestic Violence

This past Friday afternoon, Jocelyn and I invited Hannah Thomas, the host of Emotional Abuse and Your Faith, to blogtalkradio. Please visit the archives and listen to the show in the player below (or look for Jocelyn Andersen on iTunes podcasts)! It was my very first opportunity to talk with Hannah, and as usual, we didn't have nearly enough time to talk about all of the topics that we wanted and plowed through several. I'm also very grateful to Hannah for listening to our shows and for being so supportive of us in this effort. I love to see her pop in our show's chat room, and it always gives us an extra measure of loving moral support.

Listen to internet radio with jocelyn andersen on Blog Talk Radio

Jocelyn made reference to Hannah's recent clever commentary on Mary Kassian's creation of complementarian stereotypes that she claims that others invent as straw men (or straw women as the case may be). For those who are unfamiliar with her, Mary Kassian teaches for the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood (CBMW), and she also travels from Canada to teach at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Hannah decided to poke some fun at these ideas by creating her own stereotypes of non-complementarian women by drawing heavily from Kassian's own writings, demonstrating that Kassian is quite guilty of the same mistakes. Read more in Hannah's article HERE.

Mary Kassian

As Hannah was astute to note in the interview, none of us have met any of these people in real life on either side of the debate, though Mary states that she meets these types of typical examples of women all of the time. (Actually, I think Mary fits one of the non-complementarian stereotypes that Hannah created.) Also, Hannah notes that the male mouthpieces for CBMW can only go so far in their teachings, so they make use of women like Kassian to advance their ideas, going where no man can take their own moral suasion. A woman can go a bit further with these ideas, and if a man did so, they would offend.  

(Link HERE to read my own commentary on CBMW's guiding principles as found in their Danvers Statement.)

We also discussed the issue of domestic violence and the church's response to the problem. So many pastors either don't want to get involved with domestic problems when a spouse comes to them for help and advice, or the messages that they give people seem contradictory or shaming. Hopefully pastors can listen to this interview and get some ideas about how to deal with domestic violence and what women in particular go through when they seek help and support from their churches. I like to recommend her list of resources concerning emotional, spiritual, and domestic abuse to people who contact me looking for help. It's especially easy to both read and navigate. 

Please visit Hannah at Emotional Abuse and Your Faith to read more about a wide variety of topics concerning contemporary ideas that affect the Christian Faith, how people apply their beliefs in terms of their faith, and how these ideas and applications affect the church.

Hannah and I tend to share the same soap boxes, so if you appreciate the material here on this site, you will enjoy hearing Hannah's keen perspective on many similar matters and more. You can also follow Hannah on Facebook where she often archives many of her blog posts where she's been following the Tina Anderson case and posting updates. 

For more information regarding Tina Anderson:          

Watch the 20/20 video HERE, read more HERE, listen to the blogtalkradio episode about Tina, and read Jack Schaap's response. Read more about similar abuses at Hephzibah House HERE.

If you listen to the archived show with Hannah and would like to learn more about how the Church can sometimes fail to properly respond to families who deal with domestic violence, I'd also recommend listening to this collection of clips from the 2010 Seneca Falls 2 Evangelical Women's Rights Convention concerning the problems and strategies for ministry to help churches minister to women experiencing domestic violence and abuse. And hopefully, Hannah can make it to the next the next one that we hope to put together for the Fall of 2012!

Please visit the Freedom for Christian Women Coalition YouTube Channel's domestic abuse playlist to view MANY MORE videos pertaining to this important topic featuring:

• Jocelyn Andersen (of The Dorcas Network and author of Woman Submit: Christians and Domestic Violence) 
• Waneta Dawn (author of Behind the Hedge: A Novel) 
• Kate Johnson (of www.ccada.org and author of Healing the Broken Places: For Christian Women Healing From Domestic Abuse).

Jocelyn Andersen's show/podcasts are now on iTunes!

Coming Next to blogtalkradio:

An interview with Meg Moseley,

author of When Sparrows Fall

published by Waterbrook/Multnomah,

now available at major booksellers

and at Amazon.com.

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Support Tina Anderson

Copy and display on your own blog (at least until after Ernest Willis stands trial, beginning on Monday).

Willis plead guilty to statutory rape charges on May 17th but will still stand trial for other charges including aggravated sexual assault on Monday, May 23rd.  The plea will stand, even if there is a mistrial.

The Judge has ruled that Tina will not be permitted to state that Willis offered to pay for an abortion or to punch her in the stomach to induce a miscarriage,  nor will Tina be permitted to use the word "cult" during her testimony.   She may use the word "survivor" while testifying, however.

The Judge will rule by the end of the week on whether the 31 minute taped interview of Willis by the police will be admitted in court because of the repetition by the interrogating police officers that they believe Tina Anderson's testimony and that they disbelieve Wills.

Read more in Willis Pleads to Statutory Rape.

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More Commentary on the Stay at Home Daughter

A friend of mine commented today about the old Tin Pan Alley song, "The Bird in the Gilded Cage" and quoted the chorus.  I thought immediately of the young woman who is kept at home by her father and finds no suitors suitable for her, turning them away.

She's only a bird in a gilded cage,

A beautiful sight to see,

You may think she's happy and free from care,

She's not, though she seems to be,

 

'Tis sad when you think of her wasted life,

For youth cannot mate with age,

And her beauty was sold,

For an old man's gold,

She's a bird in a gilded cage.

 

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Some Family Integrated Satire

Enjoy a little humor for the weekend, though it's a sad commentary on a sad reality.  I found the video on a blog comment that added that "the Quiverfull Movement will be barren within a decade if this keeps up!"  The second video points out well the truth that very few homeschoolers within the hardcore end of the Quiverfull/Patriarchy Movement encourage their sons to serve in the military.

For those unfamiliar with the specifics of groups like Vision Forum (VF) who glorify military battles of the past through items like the "League of Grateful Sons" (a video by VF), these videos posted here today point out the irrational Cherry Pie Theology (my new coined and clever term) that results from cherry picking favorite doctrines.  Quite often, the behavior of groups like Vision Forum end up working the functional opposite of what the group says it hopes to accomplish.

This is a function of spiritual abuse.  In addition to the focus on parental authority, image consciousness, perfection, and members who are never permitted to express doubts or confusion about the ideology, these videos point out well how focus on special pet doctrines and practices (those cherry picked ones) as opposed to the central message of Christianity often ends up defeating the group's special purpose anyway.

My husband says whoever produced these should win an Emmy and should put VF's film festival to shame!



From YouTube's fandediscussions  | May 14, 2010 

Please read this before commenting. I am not against Christianity or against homeschooling. I am not even against parents raising their kids with their values. What I am against is the current patriocentric paradigm where a girl is taught that her only calling is to marry whatever young man her father either approves or finds for her, and bears his children. But whenever any young men come around, the father finds fault (too poor, not doctrinally compatible, not good looking enough). And so the poor girl stays home, "learning to serve her father at home" as she grows older and less nubile. It is normal for parents to think that no one is good enough for their child. But these patriarchal families take it to the extreme, and the girls trapped between a rock and a hard place. God is not the author of this confused movement.

More from YouTube's fandediscussions  | Nov 14, 2010 

I'm not down on homeschoolers - in fact, I am a homeschooling parent. But many homeschoolers have real issues when it comes to launching that arrow out of the quiver. 

HT to the Traditional Catholicism blog and one of the participants there for posting one of the videos under a discussion of Stay at Home Daughters.

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Who Won a Copy of "When Sparrows Fall"? (and win a copy of Jon Zens' "No Will of My Own")

Today's post is just a tad silly!

I guess when you have cats help you, that's what tends to happen.  ;)

How to Win a Copy of No Will of My Own by Jon Zenz

If you have not already read or heard about Jon Zens new book, please read more HERE.

And if anyone can correctly identify why my cats might be named “Simeon” and “Anna,” send me your address, and I'll enter you in a raffle for a copy of Jon's new book, “No Will of My Own: How Patriarchy Smothers Female Dignity and Personhood.”

If you can't figure it out, listen to the May 7, 2001 episode of Jocelyn Andersen's blogtalkradio (BTR) with Jon Zens. Someone mentions a particular old legal standard that drastically limits a woman's autonomy by suspending an aspect of her existence under certain circumstances.  Send the answer to me via email by June 1st, and I'll enter you into the contest.

 ~~~

Who Won a Copy of When Sparrows Fall by Meg Moseley?

 

From MegMoseley.com:

Freedom. Safety. Love. Miranda vows to reclaim them--for herself, and for her children.

A widow and mother of six, Miranda Hanford leads a quiet, private life. When the pastor of her close-knit church announces his plans to move the entire congregation to another state, Miranda jumps at the opportunity to dissolve ties with Mason Chandler and his controlling brand of “shepherding.” But then Mason threatens to unearth secrets only he knows, and Miranda feels trapped, terrified she’ll be unable to protect her children.

Since I posted my review of the book in advance of the publication date, and in celebration of the much anticipated official release, Under Much Grace raffled off two of the books. I'm excited that people went to the effort of following through with the incentive which involved listening to a particular episode of Jocelyn Andersen's BTR and writing about it.

Please keep checking back with us for an upcoming interview with Meg Moseley

on BTR about When Sparrows Fall. 

We just haven't managed to match up our schedules, 

but you can listen to our early thoughts about the book HERE.

So on May 4^th, as promised,  I persuaded my silly cat to choose from among the entries. She loves to bite paper, and we often laugh here about how she “validates” coupons and receipts before they make it from the mail to their appropriate destinations. So we all had a bit of must-needed fun while Anna chose the winner. Too busy with napping and general cat-like disinterest, Simeon, my other cat, refused to participate.

Per the rules of the raffle, the winning contestant could choose to have their entry posted here.

Winner #1:

Andrea Ball was the first winner who writes a most excellent entry about the BTR archive of April 9, 2011 (Why Good People Make Dangerous Choices: The Pearl Method). She summarizes what Jocelyn says about the significance of “the small first step.”

Can Christians do the unthinkable? Jocelyn describes on the blogtalkradio interview how they did (in the case of the Schatzes) and how such things could happen again. It all begins with an authority figure (in this case a spiritual leader) assuring his adherents that what they are doing is to bring about a spiritual reformation -- a Godly society in America. If husbands are told that their wives are less than human and merit corporal punishment, that their children must be trained in the fear and admonition of the Lord using means they would have in the past found appalling, by little increments they come to accept it till they come to find that they have done the unthinkable.

The second step Jocelyn mentions, the diffusion of responsibility, allows the participants in the horrific acts to shift blame and also gives them permission to be violent. In complementarianism as taught in the Christian patriarchy movement, the husband is ultimately responsible for whatever happens, no matter how wrong it is, and the wife can be protected psychologically against any twinges of guilt. She can still believe she is a good person, a phenomenon known ad doubling which Robert Lifton describes in "The Nazi Doctors." As Christians we should take these sobering instances from social psychology to heart, for it is not just the Schatzes, but each of us if we allow our minds and souls to be surrendered to an authoritarian leader.

Winner #2:

Though the other winner chose not to have her entry posted, she's written another insightful comment which Dee and Deb, those Stylish Bloggers, may turn into a blog post in days to come.

Kathy's comment at The Wartburg Watch in the discussion following their post entitled, Heaven, Hell and the O'Reily Factor:

As a former missionary to remote, tribal people who have no access to the gospel due to language barriers and geography, I have another perspective on this question of hell.

The Bible does talk about two possibilities after our physical death, either with God (heaven) or separated from him (hell), so I am sticking with that. But how exactly a person ends up in one “place” or the other, that is something I am not so sure about anymore.

Here’s why:  “When people choose not to believe in Christ, that’s their business. When people have no choice, that’s OUR business.” I used this phrase to garner support from churches for our missionary work. On a superficial level that may sound very noble and caring. It is certainly motivating to those who truly believe there is a hell and that the only way for people to have another post-death option is by hearing (understanding) the gospel.

But ultimately, for me as a Christian missionary, the idea of people’s eternal destiny resting on my shoulders was an intolerable burden. This weight of personal responsibility has also had disastrous consequences for many families in my former mission. These parents felt compelled to board their children at MK schools so that they would be unhindered in their efforts to learn the tribal language and get the gospel to the people before anyone else in the tribe died and went to “a Christless eternity”.

The MKs were told by the school staff not to tell their parents that they were unhappy at boarding school because if they told it would “hinder their parents’ work and result in Africans going to hell”. This spiritual abuse (the “don’t talk” rule) set the foundation for other abuses, including sexual abuse, to go undiscovered or covered up for decades. Now these adult MKs deal with PTSD, broken marriages, addictions, etc.

The abuse and cover up is documented by GRACE (Godly Response to Abuse in Christian Environments). You can read the 68 page report online at:

http://fandaeagles.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Amended-GRACE-Report-on-NTM-Fanda-Amended-edition.pdf

If our urgency to reach those who have ‘no choice’ with the gospel brings results like this, I wonder why any thinking person would want to ‘choose’ Christianity anyway. Something is wrong here!

Another dilemma is how to reconcile the idea of God’s love for all people with the Calvinist/Reformed idea that God chooses who will get to be the benefactors of his ‘love’. Whether you believe God irresistibly chooses some and not others or whether you believe in free will, if you believe that the only possibility for salvation comes through hearing the gospel then essentially you also believe that there is a massive, unchosen, damned portion of humanity, based solely on the fact that they were born in a time period and location without access to the gospel.

This is a relatively comfortable theoretical discussion here on the internet. It’s another thing when a 20 year old tribal guy who was instrumental in helping you move into his remote village and is anxious to hear your special “message” in his own language, wastes away and dies of TB before your eyes, refusing to take the medicine you offer because he does not understand the true cause of illness and the effectiveness of medicine.

How do you reconcile God’s love for you and your compassion for that tribal guy (which compelled you to leave your life in the States and move your family half way around the world to live without modern conveniences) with God’s apparent indifference for the guy, given the fact that you prayed for God to keep him alive long enough or you to learn the language and explain the gospel to him?

I have reconciled it this way. Maybe there is more ‘truth’ out there than what has been revealed in the Bible. Maybe there is more to the ‘story’ of heaven and hell, sin and salvation that what we know. That is what I’m choosing to believe. I have to believe this if I am going to hold on to Christianity at all. I have believe that somehow, someway, someday, somewhere, all people are given an equal opportunity to believe or reject Christ’s atonement for them.

If I don’t believe this than ‘God’s love’ has a hollow ring to it. If God’s love for me really amounts to dumb luck – having been born in the right place at the right time – then it is not love at all. I can’t handle the thought of a world without a personally involved God of love. Life is pointless without a belief in something good and right out there, something that can make sense out of all the craziness and pain. So I just keep holding on to the belief that there must be more to the story, that “questions tell us more than answers ever do” (Michael Card), that in the end I will understand and it will all be good.

“Now we see things imperfectly as in a poor mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity. All that I know now is partial and incomplete, but then I will know everything completely, just as God knows me now.” I Cor 13:12

Stop back in early June to discover who won

No Will of My Own!

(The cats are waiting...)