Wednesday, December 31, 2008

A Prayer for 2009


By God's grace and work in our lives, may we all aspire to and realize every aspect of this verse this year and live it more fully than we every have before in our Christian walk. May this be true for the whole Body of Christ.

Amen, amen, and amen.


2 Timothy 1:7

For God has not given us a spirit of fear,
but of power and of love and of a sound mind.
(NKJV)


For God did not give us a spirit of timidity,
but a spirit of power, of love and of self-discipline.
(NIV)


For God has not given us a spirit of timidity,
but of power and love and discipline.
(NASB)


For God did not give us a spirit of timidity
(of cowardice, of craven and cringing and fawning fear),
but [He has given us a spirit]
of power and of love and
of calm and well-balanced mind
and discipline and self-control.
(Amp)


God doesn't want us to be shy with his gifts,
but bold and loving and sensible.
(Message)

Tuesday, December 30, 2008

What to do with the CNP? (It's not the CNP exactly but rather the growing fringe within it.)

Since referencing Jim McCotter as a member of the Council for National Policy, I’ve received some emails asking more about the group and what I though of it. Some Christians have never really heard of the Council. If you asked me about them 15 years ago, I would have told you that they were on of the most important organization in the United States. Many people who I loved and looked up to with love and admiration were members and participants. Watching the events of recent years unfold, I have a very mixed and contradictory opinion of the group that I once revered so highly, often believing what I was told to believe. Aside from general knowledge that I’ve gained while reading and interacting with Christian Reconstructionists, I think the book that put more of this together for me was Pat Robertson’s “New World Order.” I don’t know whether others consider that to be a good source of information in a condensed form, but that book certainly, for me and my Pentecostal roots, argued well for the need for the CNP. (I don’t recall if the book actually discusses the group, as it has been about 15 years since I’ve read it.)

Monday, December 29, 2008

Who is Geoffrey Botkin? A Vision Forum Recruit from the Cult of the Great Commission


Revised 02Feb13
Revised Introduction, 14Feb2019

A few days ago, I received a registered, restricted access letter from the daughters of Geoffrey Botkin (GB).  They allege that I have profited somehow by hijacking their family name, and while I never dreamed that I was so powerful, they claim that I all but destroyed their family’s ability to support themselves.

Of notable mention in the letter was a reference to this “Who Is GB?” post..  If you find broken links in this and other material, please note that I’ve put my entire blog into draft to provide myself time to prayerfully consider the family’s claims about specific matters that they found painfully difficult.  I was willing to pend everything here for careful review in a spirit of cooperation and empathy, and I do because I don’t believe that these daughters have any true agency under the system that the family advocates.  I attest to the veracity of the core information.

Saturday, December 27, 2008

Finding An Exit Counselor and Other Help to Help Yourself



How do you find a good exit counselor these days?


Shortly after the Jonestown tragedy in 1978, the Cult Awareness Network (CAN) would refer an interested party to exit counselors or those knowlegable about thought reform for help with the psychological problems that one experiences after leaving a cult or for counsel for concerned loved ones who had family involved in cults. The Church of Scientology found this organization to be quite a threat, and through a complicated series of events, the Scientologists managed to buy CAN in a hostile takeover in 1996. Naturally, if anyone called requesting information or help with a related concern after the takeover, they were then referred to the Church of Scientology for “help.” If you could find someone with an old directory for CAN soon after the hostile takeover, you could potentially find local help for someone seeking counsel. Now a dozen years later, if you can find anyone who still has a copy of the old CAN directory, you may find that the contacts are no longer current. My last several attempts to find help for a variety of people via this route produced disappointing results.

Book Recommendations: Where To Begin Reading the Exit Literature

Note the list of recommended books below. Though I've listed secular books apart from the Christian books, I believe that it is very beneficial to read both the Christian and the secular literature on the subject. The reading helps to awaken your sleeping discernment, so reading the secular literature greatly helps this process. Cialdini's book, the secular choice in the first row is very important, but you can read a short synopsis HERE. I also believe that reading Steven Hassan's "Combating Cult Mind Control" to be very important, as it includes his personal account of his own experience. It's amazing to me to note how very similar his experience is to the experience that one has in thought reform programs in evangelical Christian and Biblical churches that embrace sola scriptura. It is worth taking the time to read. The Lalich books listed on row #2 presents practical information that helps you with the practical, real-life problems that you experience as a result of group membership. It helps you "unmask the guru" or your group leader, deal with the everyday anxieties of living and it includes important information for those who grew up in groups and know nothing else about life outside the group.

(Note that this is just a suggestion of where to start...)

Wednesday, December 24, 2008

Fooling Ourselves



Only a Rumor

*As it appears in
"Watch For the Light"


Søren Kierkegaard

(from "Meditations from Kierkegaard,"
© James Nisbet and Co, Ltd., 1955)



Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
Matthew 2:1-4



Although the scribes could explain where the Messiah should be born, they remained quite unperturbed in Jerusalem. They did not accompany the Wise Men to seek him. Similarly we may know the whole of Christianity, yet make no movement. The power that moved heaven and earth leaves us completely unmoved.

What a difference! The three king had only a rumor to go by. But it moved them to make that long journey. The scribes were much better informed, much better served. They sat and studied the Scriptures like so many dons, but it did not make them move. Who had the more truth? The three kings who followed a rumor, or the scribes who remained sitting with all their knowledge?

What a vexation it must have been for the kings, that the scribes who gave them the news they wanted remained quiet in Jerusalem! We are being mocked, the kings might have thought. For indeed what an atrocious self-contradiction that the scribes should have the knowledge and yet remain still. This is as bad as if a person knows all about Christ and his teachings, and his own life expresses the opposite.

We are tempted to suppose that such a person wishes to fool us, unless we admit that he is only fooling himself.


from "Watch for the Light:
Readings for Advent and Christmas"

The Plough Publishing House
of the Bruderhof Foundation, Inc.
Farmington, PA

Tuesday, December 23, 2008

Getting Your Ticket Stamped



From "Cooking Sacred Cows with Voddie Baucham":
Who certifies Christian colleges and universities? Who accredits them?

You know, who put that system together that says you leave your home for years, and you know, you sit there under the tutelage of those individuals you get your ticket punched and now you’re – whatever?

So that was the next part of the journey that ultimately lead us to just a commitment to Jasmine’s education. Ah, again, not schooling, but her education just being something that we oversaw and superintended all the way through.

A lot of people mistake it to mean “We’re against education for women.” Nothing could be further from the truth. She’s more educated now than I was when I graduated from college, easily (laughs). You know, she now serves as my research assistant, and she is gaining a tremendous education through that process.

And we’re preparing her for something bigger than getting her ticket punched at the university. She has grasped this multigenerational vision and wants to be a faithful daughter to her father, and a faithful wife and mother to her husband and to her children, and to her children’s children. That’s what we’re preparing for.

Sunday, December 21, 2008

A Christmas Post

This holiday has turned out to be quite odd thus far. It's more of a melancholy
one than usual, and most of my holidays are melancholy anyway. A headache produced this strange thing... I never really liked the old poem anyway. I'm not too big on Santa Claus.


A Night Before Christmas Alternative


Twas a post modern Christmas and all through the house,
There were creatures stirring, both computer and mouse
The email notes waiting with no thought or care
Confirming delivery: Fed ex had been there

Wednesday, December 17, 2008

Is Wilson Pro-Abortion or Just Following Multi-Generational Faithfulness?

Part of an ongoing discussion of multigenerational faithfulness...


I would like to explain a bit more about the mentality behind what I understand to be Douglas Wilson of the CREC’s position on reaching out to women who are pregnant and are considering abortion. As I believe that I fueled some of this debate by alluding to Doug Wilson’s statement in “Mother Kirk," I’d like to again address what he’s actually said. I believe that his reasoning represents the mindset of the patriocentrists, and this reasoning no only concerns how those who are not Christian should be treated, the reasoning also determines how this group of Christians views reproduction in general. This mindset is neo-tribal and exclusive, aspects of which I’ve discussed recently on this blog.

I left the following comment on a blog in response to a comment that stated that Doug Wilson is pro-abortion. In some sense, this person was absolutely accurate. The reasoning stems from a mentality of superiority and what I believe are logical conclusions of what many promote as Christian hierarchy which reflects God’s sovereignty. I made a few corrections in what I originally posted as a comment on the True Womanhood blog. I offer it here as part of this ongoing investigation of “multigenerational faithfulness” and "covenantal succession." Some of this will be redundant, but I would like to post it anyway, for the sake of clarification.

About Wilson “supporting abortion.” I would not say that this is exactly his position.

Federal Vision and the teachings that resulted in Steve Schissel (I don’t understand any of that with him) and Doug Wilson losing their ordination involved their view of the importance of the “covenant community,” or for those of you who don’t speak Covenant Theology-speak, this means church. “Federal” in Latin means “Covenant,” so Federal Vision is a vision for the church in real English. But if you are Wilson, you have to demonstrate that you are clever and smarter than everybody else, so you have to make things a little more obscure.

Saturday, December 13, 2008

More on Church-Speak and Loaded Language


It has been awhile since I last referenced this list of equivocal terms on the Battered Sheep website. I'm surprised that I have not linked to it from my last few posts that discuss the multiple meanings of terminology and how the application of these terms conveys multiple meanings that are used to exploit the members of manipulative groups.

Lessons in Loaded Language and Sacerdotalism




A few weeks ago, a friend wrote to ask me why I write only about issues in the evangelical church related to male headship and those who turn all things related to family life into some kind of new, holy sacrament. They pointed out that as an evangelical Christian, I should be equally concerned about Rick Warren and Joel Osteen, implying that those who speak out against patriocentricity should give these other problem areas in the church more attention.

I have one very primary reason for focusing on the patriocentrics and those who share their ideals. I do so because I’ve experienced and witnessed these abuses first hand, and these very things became a very real part of my world. My friends and I still wrestle with these problems in our churches and our lives. When I found healing and saw that there were ways that I could help those who have been deceived by these subtle things as I once was, I responded by helping others who now stand where I once stood. I communicate information to them that I desperately needed at the time but found few people who could address my pains and journey. I know how these particular groups code their language, am familiar with how they practice, so I bring more relevant and practical insight into the discussion. I certainly could read Rick Warren’s books and comment on what others have written about them, but I never went to church with Warren or Driscoll and only know of them from what others have told me about them.

Friday, December 12, 2008

The Layers of Extra-biblical Belief Underneath Multigenerational Faithfulness and the 200 Year Plan


Part of an ongoing discussion on multigenerational faithfulness...



The “200 Year Plan” promoted by Vision Forum derives from some goal setting that Geoff Botkin did with his children to help them have a “vision” and plan for their lives and his long tenure with one of the most well documented Shepherding Discipleship Bible-based cults, the Great Commission Ministries group.

This process of goal setting and planning is not new, as many people and many disciplines practice a very goal oriented and objective planning process, complete with measurable goals. (Most don't extend the planning to 200 years, however.) I cannot speak highly enough about this, having been trained in objective planning like this in my own profession as a nurse. For a hospitalized surgical patient, for example, my long-term goal for them will be to ambulate unassisted for 100 feet without assistance upon discharge, but while in my care, I must set specific, measurable goals for each day. For post-op day one, my goal may be to get out of bed six hours after returning from the OR. On post-op day three, my goal will be “Patient will ambulate three times around the clinical area four times per day.” I can’t wait until 10PM to encourage that patient to make all twelve 12 laps by midnight! You eat an elephant by disciplining yourself to eat one bite at a time, and I know well the many benefits and wisdom of this type of planning process.

Thursday, December 11, 2008

The Spiritual Eugenics of Multigenerational Faithfulness: More Social Darwinism


On this blog and elsewhere in many venues, I’ve mentioned what I call the “Spiritual Eugenics” of patriocentricity, using this term to describe those who view the Calvinistic concepts of grace and limited atonement as a means to justify cruel behavior toward those whom they esteem to be error, assuming that those persons are non-elect and therefore hated by God. For example, men like Doug Wilson find this understanding to be cause for imprecatory prayer which calls for the demise and destruction of those whom he deems his enemies, though other groups treat both professing Christians and unbelievers in the same manner for the sin of rejecting their teachings.

 In his book, “Mother Kirk,” Wilson says that the pro-life movement should face facts and realize that they should not strive to save every unborn life. Christians should rather choose to pray to God to ask Him to grant that the unborn children of the heathen, the non-elect, die in utero because God hates them.

 When I applied “spiritual eugenics” to this area of patriocentricity, I recognized that those who call for militant fecundity also promote an aspect of this same idea in some respect. They assume that all of those who are born into their churches qualify as God’s guaranteed elect, so they rationalize that as the nation of Israel expanded their kingdom by growth in the nation’s population from their father Abraham, the church also advances God’s kingdom by means of church members having large numbers of children. Some of these groups also formally state that church membership in their covenant community serves as a more significant factor in salvation than an individual’s personal faith and confession in Christ as Savior.

Multigenerational Faithfulness

Earlier this week, I listened to both parts of a sermon on multigenerational faithfulness by Bill Einwechter in July of 2005, a pastor in Pennsylvania who also speaks regularly at Vision Forum sponsored meetings and conferences. (Find the download HERE on Sermon Audio.)  Also on the Internet Archive:  Part I and Part II.

In a discussion of how we should follow Abraham’s example in our efforts to take dominion in our lives and on the earth so as to realize the Kingdom of God, Einwechter teaches that Christians under the New Covenant are also subject and bound to the full ramifications of certain aspects of Old Testament Law as found in Deuteronomy Chapter Six. The system of blessings and cursings he presents still applies to families today, and to avoid bringing the consequences of sin down on the heads of one’s progeny to the 3rd and 4th generations that follow (as cited in the sermon), one must protect these generations by faithfully and scrupulously observing the Law, presumably, in the same manner that Abraham did.

Within a section concerning the diligence to birth faithful, godly seed in the same manner that Abraham and the patriarchs of old did, Einwechter points out that “we need children . . . and wealth” to carry out multigenerational faithfulness and that a family without children “has no heritage.” Children are needful to carry our names and our work into the future. The seed of the righteous is not merely limited to sharing the Gospel through evangelism or through dutifully training up our children in the way that they should go, nurturing them in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

The group believes that the church today actually originates with the nation of Israel in some physical sense as well as the spiritual, so multigenerational faithfulness must include a sowing of our physical seed with the same zealous effort of evangelists who preach salvation to the lost. Because of this strong identification with the nation of Israel as found in the Old Covenant, this group believes that the Church remains subject to the Old Covenant in at least respect to expanding the church in order to take dominion. If believers in Christ today transgress these Old Covenant laws, they believe that the New Testament Church will pay the same consequences that Israel did before Christ presented Himself as the sufficient propitiation atoning for all sin and liberating us from the Old Covenant.

Daughters and Multigenerational Faithfulness

Sons and daughters differ according to Einwechter and the "continuity of history" of name and family extends only through sons. Einwechter states that multigenerational faithfulness works differently for daughters because a daughter no longer carries on her own family’s heritage or work within her new marriage. She serves her new husband’s family name and “his covenant,” so their marriage allows the husband to “extend his influence into other families.” 

Daughters are the “dynamic means” whereby men extend their name and heritage “into other covenantal family units,” or more specifically as Einwechter implies, into her own family of origin. The man “extends the covenant” of his own fathers through marriage. “Daughters are not dead ends . . . Faithful families must work together to give their sons and daughters to one another in marriage.” He also explains that multigenerational faithfulness cannot be limited to simply training our children but should include “the goal of giving them in marriage to other well-trained children from godly homes.”

When men and women marry, Paul teaches that women should submit to their husbands as unto the Lord. The husband leaves his parents and cleaves unto his new bride, and the two become one flesh. But I find it distressing that any Christian would ever find any need to utter that “Daughters are not dead ends.” In this sermon, we see the patriocentric belief that daughters must be given in marriage (a social and societal construct) and that both sets of parents bear responsibility for matchmaking under their version of courtship. These details and information present nothing new and highlights that which has already been stated in the writings and other media of the patriocentrists. But I find that the context and other aspects of this description of daughters as related to multigenerational faithfulness quite revealing.

Einwechter describes marriage as though it is some type of sub-process of taking over the world, and I suppose that for those who find dominion to be the strongest motivator in their Christian service, marriage becomes a type of taking over of their little corner of it. I agree that husbands extend their name and heritage through marriage, though I would add that the wife also extends her own heritage as well and does not serve only as a lesser creature or tool as this teaching subtly implies through it’s “dead end” disclaimer. (The traditional understanding concerning “Jewishness” maintains that Jewish heritage passes down from mother to child, not through the father, for example.)

 But what is meant by a man “extending his covenant?” Aren’t we all partakers in the same covenant in Christ Jesus as believers? Is not the covenant of marriage a new covenant that exists between husband, wife, and the Lord, something that is not an extension of any other, pre-existing covenant and not contingent upon another covenant belonging to the husband alone? A man does start his own unique chapter in this history and in his name when he weds. But what is meant by this reference to a “covenant” that is “extended?”

Daughters are the means to a man’s end of conquering “other covenantal family units”? When my husband married me, he overtook part of my father’s family? Our marriage was part of his taking over his own little corner of the world, his having dominion over my parents in some way? What?! Some critics observe that the practices in these rigid and demanding Christian churches bear striking similarities to the practices found in the FLDS and extreme forms of Islam – groups who are also obsessed with assimilating families and birthing large families. These similarities seem especially disturbing to critics when considered in light the ambiguous and fluid moratorium on Old Covenant Law observed by those who embrace this version of multigenerational faithfulness.

Social Darwinism

Darwinism
describes Charles Darwin’s theory accounting for the evolution of one species into another through a process of gradual inherent changes passed on generationally, resulting in new orders, families, genuses and species of organic life. His theory defines this process that he called “natural selection,” describing a drive to emerge from the competition of organisms’ survival to emerge as predominant. Individual traits, systems, and species, etc. survive adversity, and those traits, systems, and species that are not resilient enough to persevere through the adversities of mutation and environment do not survive.

Herbert Spencer then coined the term “survival of the fittest” to describe natural selection in social dynamics, and Darwin’s own cousin, Sir Francis Galton, applied the concept to frame out the philosophy of eugenics. Under the guise of seeking the greater good for all mankind, those who desire power and wealth and employ this thinking fall into corruption, usually accomplishing their ends by collectivistic, authoritarian, totalitarian, and hegemonic means. Please also note that, ironically, eugenics advances that which is “normative” by seeking to eradicate the “bungled, botched” and defective on its quest to improve the human gene pool for the greater good through a process of guided or directed evolution.


I’ve already described a certain sector of the church that seeks to take dominion over the earth in the Name of Jesus Christ while berating, cursing and condemning others who do not share their belief system (targeting unbeliever and confessing evangelical Christian alike). They approach other Christians who agree on the essentials of Christianity but differ in nonessential beliefs as their adversaries, as if engaged in some type of competition for limited resources. They define their beliefs and practices as superior to all others, and they define themselves as God’s intellectual and elect elite.

Though a misinterpretation of the principles of theonomy that pushes them to achieve dominion in all areas of life on earth and in every “social sphere,” they often withdraw from the culture to preserve the pious nature, achieved through obedience to formulas of the Law of the Old Covenant in order to preserve their posterity and protect it from harm. In this sermon by Einwechter, these sentiments are quite noted to be not limited to practical matters in life and in spiritual matters, but they attach their dominion to the propagation of their own “spiritual species” through birthing large families in the natural in order to accomplish their ends.

Thus the covenant family of God and His nation of Israel that is realized in their faithful remnant will be propagated as their sons expand their dominions through the spiritual species of their godly seed. They pick spouses for their adult children from a pool of like-minded faithful followers of their ideology, and even some parents will not consent to the selection of mates that have not been homeschooled. Daughters, the less normative gender, serve as the precious instruments by which these men extend their names, heritages and covenants into the daughter’s families, expanding into the daughter’s “covenantal family units.”

Now, folks, if Sunday School is Social Darwinism as Vision Forum and its following teaches, what, pray tell, is multigenerational faithfulness?

It sounds like projection to me, or something more akin to “the pot calling the kettle black.”
.
.

A Summary of Posts About the Family Integrated Church

General Beliefs Associated with Vision Forum’s                                          Family Integrated Church (FIC)

Tuesday, December 9, 2008

Pulling Apart the Ambiguous Terminology of the FIC: “Multigenerational Faithfulness” (The First of Many Posts on the Topic)



I’ve read much about this term “multigenerational faithfulness,” a loaded language phrase created by those affiliated with the Family Integrated Church (FIC) and used extensively by those affiliated with Vision Forum including James McDonald, Voddie Baucham and RC Sproul, Jr. Though I cannot find the use of this specific phrase on any websites related directly to Doug Wilson or the CREC, they do promote and practice the same core concepts using the term “covenantal succession" or some variation of that instead.

A Rightful Reaction to the Stealth and Deceptive Doctrines of the FIC

It seems that my email correspondence with Voddie Baucham has completely ceased, even though he expressed what seemed like great interest in discussing his beliefs and what he believes about the Family Integrated Church (FIC) with me. I have not heard any response from Baucham in over a week now, and it’s been a week since I sent him the list of questions that he said he would make some effort to answer. He's not even acknowledged them. I can only draw his originally stated good intention toward me as stated in his emails into question, in consideration of his online response which showed his accountability to the truth (quite admirable) but in a manner that was unkind to me (negating his statement that he intended to cause me no harm, offering a confusing apology which he never attempted to qualify and explain to me).

Monday, December 8, 2008

Putting Voddie Baucham's "Family Driven Faith" Into Perspective

Quite often, we spend our lives countering or making up for what we did not have when we were growing up. I’ve though recently about Catherine McAuley, a woman born in Dublin a little more than 200 years ago. She was orphaned but received a large inheritance from those who raised her. McAuley was moved with compassion and used her wealth to establish a ministry for disadvantaged women and children, and her efforts eventually birthed the Sisters of Mercy who still continue to carry out her mission today. I find it inspiring that my own experiences moved me to outspokenness regarding the spiritual abuse of women and children within the church after having been trained at a Mercy college. The driving force in our lives often stems from a motivation to provide for needs that we ourselves did not realize, just as McAuley demonstrates.

 I was miraculously healed as a newborn and had chronic health issues, so I became fascinated with healing and inspired to help other people to heal, comforting others as I had been. My mother also strongly encouraged nursing for me so that I would be financially self-sufficient, never finding myself financially trapped in a painful relationship (as she was within her own family of origin), a bad marriage or the plight of widowhood. I believe that she also encouraged me to train as a nurse because she wanted this for herself, but her parents refused to send her to nursing school when she was young. Many other things my parents stressed with me growing up were very much a concerted effort to make my life better in all the ways that their lives were not.   I believe the same is true for Voddie Baucham after reading through his “Family Driven Faith.”

After my disappointing experience with Baucham, I decided to finish reading his book to comment on it here because I want to represent him fairly here on this blog. I may not agree with him and may state why I do not, but such disagreements never give us cause to misrepresent others. As he stated in an email to me, we do share a great many beliefs. I’ve long shared the sober concern regarding the vital importance of a Christian worldview that Baucham discusses in his book, pouring over my copies of Schaeffer’s “Christian Manifesto” and LaHaye’s “Battle for the Mind” soon after they were first published. (When preparing an essay on “the desperate need for reformation in my generation” in the midst of the cold war in 1981, I read Donald Howard’s citing of Stalin saying “If we can destroy the pride and patriotism of just one generation, we have won that nation.” I vividly remember looking around my classroom thinking, “We are in BIG trouble!”)

 I also share Baucham’s concern over Biblical illiteracy among both adults and young people in the church, the troubling negative trends regarding church attendance, as well as a profound disappointment in public education. Regarding the essentials of the faith, I do believe that we agree upon more than we differ. I find this frustrating to realize when he addresses the issue of women, and I wonder how he can be so right on some points, yet so wrong on others. I suppose he might say the same of me. As I mentioned before on this blog, initially, I had to set his book aside. Because the authoritative approach and the numerous fallacies Baucham uses to support his views frustrate me, they impeded my progress through the material. For example, he states that Moses taught that the home was the only intended site for religious training for children, citing the shema and the other commandments found in Deuteronomy Chapter 6. He strongly encourages families to study the Word together through catechisms and to engage in worship with one another in the home per the Biblical model that Moses intended.

 Though there are several elements within his argument with which I wholeheartedly agree, I also note many problems and inconsistencies making this entire argument in his full context misleading and frustrating for me. An unrelated and exaggerated analogy demonstrating how he communicates these matters authoritatively would be, “We all know and it goes without saying that apples are red, and the greatest minds of history attest to this obvious fact.” Many apples are red, but not all apples are red. Some are green, some are yellow, and some boast a mottled combination of colors. This authoritative approach used on nearly every topic becomes labor intensive for me, because I believe that his views on these topics are often manipulative and/or narrow-minded. As an only child like Baucham, though I certainly could never speak to all the experiences that he must have endured, I’m well acquainted with the “only child” experience and all that it entails. We tend to see the world from only one perspective, having no siblings to give us the perspective that things can be different or that others perceive things in ways that differ from how we make sense of the world. One of the tasks that the only child must learn as an adult includes an overcoming of this “narrow mindedness.”

 I see a great deal of myself in the “That’s how I see it, so this is how it is ” statements in the book which likely account for SOME of his style that I find abrasive. I recognize this and see Baucham playing out this dilemma and its consequences in his book, sometimes projecting his perspective onto others using a misleading and authoritative approach. As Baucham describes the circumstances of his life in the book, I am reminded of myself, my own mother and even Catherine McAuley. We’ve all determined to be an agent of positive change, seeking to counter that which has hurt us, making sure that those like us will not be left without comfort. Baucham states that he grew up in South Central Los Angeles, born to a young mother who was abandoned by his father. He talks about how she practiced Buddhism, performing her daily rituals of prayer which left a deep impression on him. She gave up everything to raise her son, setting her own needs aside to provide for him, and he speaks of his epiphany of realizing how she’d put his needs before her own desires in life. He speaks of how his mother graduated from college at age 49, but she did not return to school until after she’d seen her son grow up to be a fine man.  Baucham also mentions the “unspeakable” abuse that his wife and her sisters endured – the wife he married while yet still both a football player and a sophomore in college.

In his junior year when his daughter was born, he describes the precious epiphany he had over the tremendous weight of responsibility that he realized for raising her. Baucham describes how when his daughter, then attending a private Christian school, developed displeasing attitudes, requiring that he and his wife to go back and “completely retrain her.” Jasmine, his daughter, states on her blog that they’ve been a homeschooling family since 2000 only, a few years after Doug Phillips established Vision Forum. I cannot help but speculate that Baucham found that message of patriarchy and family integrated worship enticing in his hour of great need with his beloved daughter. If Baucham did not already embrace these concepts, he was certainly ripe for harvest by the ideology through his need for guidance with his daughter, his great love for all the of women in his life, all in addition to the history of his family (particularly concerning the pains and tragedies experienced by his wife and mother).

I’m impressed that what he lacked in his own life, he hopes to provide for others, encouraging them so that they do not suffer as he and members of his own family have (though we don’t agree at all on what that should look like). Vision Forum promises “Biblical” answers and what look like solutions to serious problems. When we become off balance or needy in life, ideologies can easily pull us in by promising to solve our problems, by temporarily appeasing our fears, and by celebrating in our virtues. When you are parched and thirsty, and someone who has no duty to do so gives you life-giving water with the promise and appearance of love and care in the name of an ideology, those experiences profoundly soften our scrutiny.

 Much of what I found in the book was an argument in support of training children in the home, much of which I don’t think any Christian would dispute. Many of the single elements within his paradigm prove sound. However, Baucham presents his paradigm of training children in the home as God’s and Moses’ only Biblical or most consistently Biblical plan for the education of children, something I do not believe is as exclusive as the book claims. Though Baucham makes claims of tolerance, denying an agenda that opposes other alternatives to his own, a Christian should intrinsically understand that if they follow a practice that is not Biblical, that “not Biblical” amounts to an accusation of sin (rather than just someone else’s personal conviction). Baucham poses statements with obvious emotionally loaded connotative meaning for the Christian (i.e., Sunday School as Darwinian), but he fails to directly state the final conclusion: that people who do not follow his paradigm, his preference, and his interpretation practice sin. What that is unbiblical or not quite Biblical falls within the pale of orthodoxy? These ethics are never discussed specifically or openly.

 Baucham uses the fallacy of unstated assumption, vague implication and, fuzzy logic so that he can claim innocence. Technically he has only said “less Biblical” and not made a direct and open statement charging others with sin (by saying something stronger like unbiblical or non-Biblical). If it is Biblical to have no other Gods before YHWH God, how can a less Biblical view be anything other than sin? “Unbiblical” connotes sin. “Non-normative” is used interchangeably and is understood in the same manner.

Like Vision Forum, Baucham makes all sorts of presuppositional errors which have an “all or nothing” flavor to them, all carrying an adversarial implication. “If you are not with me, you can only be against me” (to one varying degree or another). He does a great deal of Affirming the Consequent and Denying the Antecedent and post hoc ergo propter hoc, etc.. Here is a simple example of just one of the errors he makes frequently and applies inconsistently (when it promotes his argument):

Anything that is not specifically outlined in the Bible is part of the secular culture. AND The secular culture is humanistic and sinful in terms of Christian worldview. THEREFORE To embrace or practice anything in our secular culture opposes a Christian worldview and is sinful.

But this assumption does not apply to everything, and these rules of thumb that are generally true are NOT ALWAYS true. In terms of Christian worldview, humanism is sinful, but not all components of secular culture are sinful. Indoor plumbing, houseplants and kitchen curtains are never discussed in the Bible, so this is a secular concern, but total silence on these specific secular matters in the Word does not make these things unbiblical or sinful. Calvin and Martin Luther in particular taught and spoke regularly about the sacred and the profane. Is all human conventional wisdom and logic an example of vain deceit that defies God? Those who profess to be Reformed should be well-versed in these writings, as Luther wrote about these matters and reinforced with people that their daily work was an act of worship and their ministry. Ministry was not limited to the priesthood or the priestly duties only, nor was ministry in the church more precious to God than any humble service performed unto the glory of God. Many of these arguments are akin to this example:

The roads get wet during rain. AND The roads are wet. THEREFORE It’s raining.
(OR It’s a tsunami!!!)

Again, it is a general rule of thumb to assume that if the roads are wet, it has rained or that it is raining. This is not always true, as the roads could be wet from having been washed down with a hose, from snow melting, from a water-main break, from a leaking vehicle full of liquid, etc. Also consider that many of these issues are complex and not as easily discerned as is the determining of how the roads became wet. Baucham makes many such errors of this variety, as does Vision Forum. 

Voddie Baucham, like Doug Phillips, has a great deal to offer the church, but his personal and extra-biblical preferences work like potent poison in practice for a great many people who found the full scope of these teachings to be devastating. Baucham’s book misleads, and though it contains many good elements, it uses bad logic and manipulation to force mere opinions and preferences as indisputable facts with either absent or unsatisfying “proven evidence.” In “Family Driven Faith,” he softens his stance and his specific opinions concerning many of the views he hold in common with Vision Forum and does not reflect the whole scope of his views.

 Baucham’s anticipated new book release in February should elucidate more of his aberrant views than “Family Driven Faith” does because of the specific subject matter, though he might be able to soften the sharp edges in that cutting doctrine, too. It depends on how honest of a book it proves to be. Perhaps then we may learn whether it is his Calvinism or Vision Forumesque doctrine that proves to be his greatest detractor within the SBC? .
.

Friday, December 5, 2008

The Linguistic Snare of Men as Prophet, Priest and King for Families


Voddie Baucham mentioned a fine (and unsolicited) example of the linguistic snare of the redefinition of terms in his email correspondence with me. He is one of many who has promoted the trap of logic inherent in this particular teaching, but because of the centrality of fathers in the Family Integrated Church (FIC) paradigm, the teaching creates special, unique problems with many undesirable effects. Because Protestants believe that prophesying through the Word and Spirit passed to all believers who no longer require the intercession of any earthly mediator resulting from the atoning work of Christ, the special assignment of the duties of prophet and priest to husbands and fathers, however limited, becomes ambiguous and predisposes the unsuspecting believer to error.

As mentioned in the previous post, redefining terms does not constitute a fallacy in and of itself, but it often predisposes one to fall back into the old understanding of the original and traditional definition of the word out of habit without realizing it. Redefinition thus paves the way for the Fallacy of Equivocation, because the redefined word or phrase holds two or more distinct meanings. Manipulators can subtly pressure their marks and then vacillate between the two understandings and distinct meanings, gaining only the benefits of both and while avoiding all criticisms. Sometimes this is done quite innocently, but the practice of redefinition creates problems of equivocation just the same. A sermon by George Whitefield presents us with one such example.

The Logical Fallacy of Redefining Terms and Other Boobytraps

A friend of mine noted once that a phase from one of my favorite hymns, “Victory in Jesus,” always makes her laugh because “He plunged me to victory” conjures up the image of a toilet plunger for her. About 95% of the time, when we refer to“plunge” in our contemporary society, we use the word in reference the process of plunging a blocked toilet with a red rubber toilet plunger on a wooden handle. Likewise, when the hymn was written in 1939 and during the time that the author was raised, indoor flushing toilets were still somewhat new in very many homes. As a consequence, the first image to pop into the author’s head was not likely a red toilet plunger, but rather this physical dynamic of water alone. The translation of meaning between the era in which the hymn was written and our current era creates ambiguity.

Sunday School as Darwinian Evolution: Giving the Appearance of Tolerance: Using Logical Fallacy

As noted in a previous post, Voddie Baucham maintains that neither he nor his preferred paradigm of the Family Integrated Church (FIC) threatens other churches or their own preferences regarding their choices of how they approach the training of believers to live strong, effective Christian lives. In an email, he writes:
This group seemed to think that age segregation was a biblical model never to be forsaken, and that our church was out of bounds for failing to employ this strategy. Even though I pointed out in Family Driven Faith, that I do not believe every church has to be structured this way (see p. 213).
From page 213 of “Family Driven Faith”:
Again, we probably can’t go out and transform our congregations into family-integrated churches. Nor do I think we need to. At Grace w have found a paradigm that answers most of the questions and concerns about multi-generational faithfulness and, more importantly, is closely aligned with the biblical model. However, our church is not perfect. We discover new weaknesses each day. And I am sure that we will discover still more tomorrow. Thus I did not write this chapter as a blueprint to be followed to the letter. I simply wanted to raise the relevant issues and offer some solutions that have proven effective. I also wanted to offer some answers to the questions I have received over the past few years as I have preached and lectured on the topic. Therefore, while most people will not share the distinctives of a family-integrated church, we can agree on the guiding principles. We can and we must promote a biblical view of marriage and family, family worship and discipleship, Christian education and biblically qualified leadership. The harsh reality is that unless we radically change the way we view the church and the family, we will not see an end to the decimation of both institutions in our culture. However, I believe that the tide is turning.
Certainly in print, when the reader or the observer’s perspective remains limited to only these sources, I anticipate that they would believe without reservation that Voddie Baucham approaches the subject of the means by which the church (and individual churches) chooses to convey the Gospel and sound Christian doctrine with tolerance and respect. I like the choice of the phrasing here, indicating that for those who are not in agreement regarding the methods and means of what he describes as the FIC, Baucham notes that “we can agree on guiding principles.” This has a ring of Augustine’s familiar statement in it, suggesting that we should have unity in the essentials of the faith, and both liberty and charity towards our brethren concerning the doubtful. And what God-honoring Christian who is committed to Biblical Authority, sola scriptura, could have any cause to reject the promotion of the “Biblical view” of any of the virtuous aspects of the faith that Baucham notes on the heels of his statement of liberty and charitable Christian tolerance?

 Committed Christians strive above all things to attain God’s highest standard, just as the Psalmist did when he said “Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart be acceptable in my sight, Oh Lord, my Strength and my Redeemer.” All these things are to be desired far above gold and are sweeter to the believer than honey and the honey comb. Unfortunately, though there is little fault that can be noted in this statement, I believe that the full scope of the message that Voddie Baucham preaches mitigates these principles, and I do not find this contradiction to be innocent at all. How could I dare state such a thing, after the lovely images of graciousness promoted by Dr. Baucham himself as I’ve quoted them here?

 In most Christian homeschooling communities and in most conservative, evangelical Christian churches, today those believers embrace a theory of special creation concerning the origins of the heavens and the earth. I delight at how the order of the creation denies the idea of God’s creation by means of the process of a gradual evolution, for there were many animals that would have had to survive for “millions” of years with no food, if Moses had truly written the account accurately without errors in the chain of events. For this simple reason and for many other scientific reasons, the primary target audience of Baucham’s message includes those who primarily profess a theory of the young earth idea of special creation. This audience generally disdains anything that counters special creation in any way.

Anyone remotely familiar with evangelical Christians who homeschool readily recognize this bedrock of beliefs and the great significance special creation holds for this community. It’s one of the well-understood “universal constants” within Christian homeschooling today. I find it quite telling to note that in Baucham’s zeal as he advocates for the FIC interest in keeping the family unit together during worship and spiritual instruction, his advocacy does not remain limited with the description of the virtues of his view. Baucham and those at Vision Forum vilify other standards of practice as unbiblical by employing several different logical fallacies in order to do so. Like Vision Forum, he maintains that age-appropriate and targeted instruction of those within the church setting is not only not in the church’s best interest, but he states with all authority and with no equivocation of doubt that the rationale behind Sunday School arose from and should be considered consistent with “Social Darwinism.”

From "Biblical Womanhood, Part 1 of 8" (a YouTube video – displays a photo with audio only which has since been privatized):
Yesterday evening Paul talked about this idea of Sunday School ministry and youth group ministry and some of these things that we do in our church that are actually, absolutely not from Scripture, but they are from the culture...And actually in England, Sunday School ministry started not just to minister and disciple, you know, to lost kids. But remember, this was before child labor laws, so small children were working in factories because they had smaller hands and could do things with, you know, smaller pieces of material... And so what we now know as youth ministry does not at all come from Scripture. It does not at all come from the life of Christ at all, does not at all come from the Epistles, does not at all come from the teaching of the early church. 
Um, it is a modern American construct... By the way, the idea of segregating people by age – again – not a Biblical construct. The idea that you have a class for people of this age and a class for people of that age that we do now in our Sunday School movement? Not a Biblical construct at all. Well where does it come from? Well, that comes from the modern education movement. Well, where does the modern education movement get it from? Darwinian evolution. Yes. The idea of age segregation has its roots in Darwinian evolution. So the fact that we have age graded ministries in our churches not only is not Biblical, it’s actually Darwinian. Now, you go run and tell that. It’s Darwinian, okay?
A transcription of the full statement can be read HERE.

I suppose that you could make an argument that following any pragmatic considerations like age segregation could be a type of collectivism, and that could be related to Social Darwinism. But I could easily argue that the hierarchical structure of society followed by the FIC as its own type of Social Darwinism as well, and I believe that my own argument would have far more veracity. I also believe in the use of and am intimately familiar with the industrialized world’s luxury of indoor plumbing, however, this is not a Biblical construct either. I don’t draw water from a well and carry it into my home, and that practice is well noted in the Word.

 However, that is not my main concern. I would like to draw attention to the connotation of the words used in this discourse and how their use works against the argument Baucham makes when he promotes himself as a man of Christian liberty and tolerance. The target audience to whom Baucham generally speaks clearly believes in belief in special creation concerning the origins of all that exists, the antithesis of which is well known to be Darwinism. All rational Christians will quickly identify this as true, and Baucham does not need to explain himself in any way to direct the thoughts of his audience to observe that anything Darwinian rejects not only their theories about the origins of existence, but the concept rejects God Himself.

 For the sake of illustrating this point, lets say that this argument is represented by the variable “A.” Everyone recognizes the value of “A” and what it represents within our society, and the concept FAR from ethically or functionally benign for the evangelical Christian. If you believe “A,” you reject creation, you reject sola scriptura, you reject God’s sovereignty and you imply that God is a deceiver for telling us a tale that a poetic lie for creating by means of evolution but presenting it as a fable of creation. From the worldview perspective of most of those people within his target audience, belief in “A” the believer as non-Christian. Baucham reinforces this idea with statements about that which is Biblical, reminding the audience, again and again, that if you are Christian, you only embrace that which is Biblical.

For whatever reasons that could well include true belief, Baucham rejects what he describes as age segregation in association with church activities. I don’t share his belief or his rationale at all, though I do agree with the observations regarding Biblically illiteracy in the church. I just reject Baucham’s description, something I find to be an oversimplified or faulty causality that fails to consider many factors. But for whatever reason, he rejects Sunday School and he claims that it is not Biblical.

Let us represent Sunday School with the variable of “B.” Whether we accept or reject “B,” all parties understand what is meant by “B.” Everyone in society has a consistent understanding of what “B” represents. Let us call that which is Biblical “C” for the sake of our argument. Baucham has done an interesting thing. He chose “A” and has said that “B” is consistent with “A.” He knows his target audience shows disdain for “A” without any work on his part. He states that “B” has roots in “A,” but he does not come out openly and directly with any statement that the consequences of “B” will result in the same consequences of “A.”

 He’s led his audience down the primrose path so that any rational person will arrive at this conclusion, and he can claim that he’s not said anything distasteful. Baucham has not ever directly said “Anyone who embraces Sunday School is a Darwinist.” But he’s done absolutely everything he can to define the landscape so that the listener can do little else but understand, if they accept his premise as valid without question, that Sunday School is evil. He has also reinforced both factors (of “A” and “B”) by mentioning each of their relationships to “C,” all with the understanding that to be a Christian is to be Biblical.
  • To be acceptable and good, you must be consistent with “C.”
  • “A” is evil and is completely inconsistent with “C.”
  • “B” is consistent with “A.”
  • “B” is not found in “C.”
Anyone with any sense of reason and who is sensitive to the offensiveness of “A” must reject “B” if they are going to keep identifying themselves and that which is good with “C.”

What happens if you are not confident in your understanding of these matters, you desire to be consistent with/accepted as part of your group, and you are not paying attention to subtly here? If you do not make an immediate judgement call on what’s been stated (something everyone around you seems to accept without objection), you will experience a great deal of psychological stress because things don’t add up. To be consistent, because Baucham has forced a moral and ethical choice that is quite significant for the Christian, the listener will have to make a choice as to whether they will reject Sunday School or whether they will reject the likable Baucham’s crafted and highly emotionally arousing argument.

He enjoys all the benefits of denouncing Sunday School and classifying it in the worst possible terms. At the same time, he expects to be able to deny that he’s not done any of these things, because he’s not directly stated them. He’s used all sorts of propaganda techniques here. First, he uses Appeal to Authority, the highest authority that a Christian should hold, by claiming that things certain things are either Biblical or not. He definitely uses Appeal to Prejudice (or Reductio ad Hitlerum) by evoking the emotions and connotations concerning Darwin and evolution, attaching moral evil to the concept he rejects and attaching goodness and moral benefit to his own concept.

He uses an interesting twist of Argumentum ad Populum here, as he calls all Christians to get on the bandwagon with all of the true Christians by drawing the contrasts against the popular culture within the church that embraces Sunday School. There may be a more accurate fallacy to site in this regard, as it appeals to the rebel who sticks to his convictions at all costs. It is a calling out of the faithful to get on the bandwagon of the faithful, rejecting the lesser subcultures.

He uses a False Dilemma (the Black and White Fallacy) to push the listener into choosing either the option that he’s painted as highly desirable or shamefully choosing the repulsive option. Some of this is promoted by his use of oversimplification of his argument and the factors that he maintains to define Sunday School as Darwinian. But primarily, Unstated Assumption (the understanding is implied and never directly stated, but the audience understands the implications well) and Intentional Vagueness (the audience is left to draw their own conclusions because they are never directly stated) convey the meaning that Sunday School and the practice of it are non-Christian and a moral evil that differs little from Darwinism which blatantly rejects God.

So with this consideration, how am I to believe, on one hand, that Baucham offers liberty and acceptance of those who do not follow his paradigm, while on the other hand, he believes that those who do not accept his paradigm are following evil? Am I to reckon him as a man who tolerates the evils of Social Darwinism in God’s Church? If Baucham claims that he does not wish to transform all churches into family integrated ones, why then does he state that Sunday School derives from Social Darwinism and claims that it is unbiblical, essentially declaring it to be a moral evil? So in respect to this example, I believe that it is highly disingenuous and deceptive for Baucham to claim that he has no agenda to leave those who do not conform to his model alone in a spirit of liberty.

 As the cliche’ goes, he wants to have his cake and eat it, too – seeming like one who is focused on guiding principles in reference to other believers, but he does not want to be associated with any negative responses to the“fire-breathing” accusations he’s made against those who reject his preferences.

 So I am concerned for those who are unaware of his views and those who are disarmed by his likeable manner. I’m concerned for those people who listen to the very many good things he has to say, many things I completely agree with, but then uses logical fallacy to force poorly supported conclusions in favor of his aberrant doctrines. Those who are unprepared for these types of situations and do not suspect these statements will be easily swayed by the false dichotomies he presents because he sounds so congenial and is perceived as ebullient.

 It will take more than a paragraph or two in a book to persuade me to accept that Baucham does not have an issue with intolerance. Too many factors and presuppositions that support the FIC concepts reject tolerance and cooperation, even those concepts embraced specifically by Voddie Baucham himself.

Voddie Baucham on Sunday School and Youth Ministry

The comment in context.

From "Biblical Womanhood, Part 1 of 8":(a YouTube video – a photo with audio only that has since been privatized):

Quoting Voddie Baucham

Thursday, December 4, 2008

Problems with Patriarchalism and Patriarchal Proof Texting

From Jack Brooks on the "Problems with Patriarchalism":

This
is what orthodox Evangelicals have to fear from the Patriarchy movement. Not the teaching of male authority, or a husband's leadership of the home, both of which are Biblical, both which are hated by feminists. No, it's this cultic pattern of Scripture twisting, mixed with the Pharisaical legalism of Theonomy.

Why Doctrinal Statements Tell You Nothing of the Unwritten Rules of a Manipulative Group

In my email correspondence with Voddie Baucham, concerning what he apparently believes to be my somewhat unfair characterization of his beliefs, he wrote:
This group seemed to think that age segregation was a biblical model never to be forsaken, and that our church was out of bounds for failing to employ this strategy. Even though I pointed out in Family Driven Faith, that I do not believe every church has to be structured this way (see p. 213).

Wednesday, December 3, 2008

Attempting to Clarify Voddie Baucham's Position on Vision Forum's FIC


In my correspondence with Dr. Voddie Baucham, he expressed concern over my “wondering” about his doctrine on my blog. I would like to note those doctrines he embraces and those he rejects from the emails that he did send me. I believe that I can also discern which groups with whom he does and does not want to be closely associated. As he expressed some desire to clarify these matters so that I do not have to “wonder aloud” about his beliefs, I would like to point out that which I believe I can identify from our exchange via email. I’ve also posed formal questions to him, and they are listed HERE.

My takeaway:  Apparently, everyone gets the Family Integrated Church wrong except Voddie Baucham.

I would also like to state that in his correspondence with me over a few days, Baucham echos my language, a technique I learned fairly early on in my studies and work writing papers. Instructors like to hear the language that they used with you in class, and reflecting their own language back to them (or regurgitating as some would put it) ingratiates the student-writer with the instructor. Baucham reflects back to me some very specific language that I used in the Patriarchy Workshop in his emails, just something I would like to note.

Based on what he’s written to me, because he’s only appeared at three conferences with Doug Phillips, he’s improperly associated with the beliefs of Vision Forum, giving me the impression that he wants to be perceived as having some distance from their group. I do not understand how he can make this statement when he shares and passionately defends so much of Vision Forum’s doctrine concerning women and daughters. He specifically mentions Vision Forum in this statement about what he calls “FIC Reaction Syndrome” wherein critics:

1.) "Wrongly characterize the FIC as a monolithic movement with unified doctrine, which emanates from Vision Forum headquarters in San Antonio (even though it includes Baptists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals)"

[Blog host note: By stating that all FIC minded churches and groups are wrongly perceived as sharing unity with Vision Forum, Baucham implies some sense of desire to be considered quite separate from them. And though Vision Forum (and the affiliated local body, Boerne Christian Assembly) professes to be an independent Baptist denomination embracing the 1689 London Baptist Confession, he contrasts Presbyterians, Pentecostals and Baptists (his own affiliation) with Vision Forum’s example.]

What is Patriocentricity?


Patriocentricity ~
  • Taken from the Latin and Greek root word "patr" meaning father and the word "centric" meaning "situated at or near the center."

  • The term was specifically coined to describe the philosophy of family life promoted within some extreme Christian and Reformed homeschooling communities that teaches that God gives a "calling" in life to only men, specifically fathers, and that the purpose of the wife and children is to fulfill the father's calling.
  • Those who embrace this position believe that it changes only when a son assumes his own household responsibilities by taking a wife or a daughter is given in marriage when she can then leave her father's home, her new purpose being to fulfill the calling of her husband.
  • Though there are varying degrees of this taught within different groups, the father is sometimes described as the "prophet, priest, and king" of the home and there are other common ideals that often accompany patriocentricity, such as militant fecundity, family integrated church, neo-feudalism, as well as neo-agrarianism.

- Karen Campbell

Visit her at www.thatmom.com.
.
.

Tuesday, December 2, 2008

List of Questions for Voddie Baucham about the FIC

Sent via email: Tuesday, December 2, 2008 6:36:26 AM

Dear Voddie,

Rather than sending me a simple email with a simple apology, I’m disappointed that you chose to respond to Don Veinot’s comments in the manner that you did. My husband kept laughing at me as I continued to check my email this past weekend. I hoped to find some kind of personal response from you (after receiving a Google Alert for my name that linked me to your blog post), even just a note of courtesy to say that you’d responded to me online. I was very hopeful that we could grow in trust and reconcile this matter far more amicably. I’ve posted a response to all of this online, and I followed that up with a related post concerning the topic of apologies.

When I last heard from you via email, you expressed a desire to communicate with me so as to clear up any questions I might have related to your beliefs concerning the FIC. Last week, I emailed you to say that I would think about things over the weekend. I’m still counting on your cooperation in clearing up some of these matters.

In previous emails to me you wrote:

“Moreover, I don't want you to have to 'wonder aloud' as to what I believe on these issues. As I said before, you and I have a few differences, but many of the things that bother you also bother me.”

~ and ~